Ted, We constantly disagree and often I feel bad not answering you back and sometimes I do not answer back becasue it changes the thread and we end up arguing in the middle of someones thread... so Im reposting my reply to you here:
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jester
I will address "mistake" first. If a young child decides to tell a lie I would call that a mistake. I do not believe for one moment that God is too concerned about that. The same goes for someone who fails to pay their parking fine or their speeding fine.
As for human nature, I guess we will have to disagree. I most certainly do not accept that a 4 month old child is a sinner. Nor is he loaded with original sin. In my opinion that is pure nonsense.
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I agree here on all points. Until a child reaches an age of reckoning he is not fully responsible for his actions, however at the moment he is faced with the apparent dichotemy between good and evil and God reveals himself to him then he is. original sin is a propensity toward ungodliness. You and I dont agree on that subject fine, we can disagree.
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I will agree with you that we must come to understand ourselves. Absolutely. I have no problem with that at all. However, the constant referral to sin and death etc is to ignore 90% of the gospel of Jesus Christ; the Good News of the Kingdom.
If we go to Matt 25, I would agree that he separates the sheep from the goats. However, a careful reading shows that the goats who are condemned are those who "Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me." Matt 25:45. Those who are welcomed into the kingdom are the sheep who "Truly I tell you just as you did it to the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me."
These verses say absolutely nothing about believers, non-believers or Christians. To put that in is to add to the scriptures. Of course there is no literal hell. Hell is separation from God. The whole idea of a lake of fire and burning without being consumed and thus suffering eternally is pure myth.
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Full disagreement here. But if you can pick and choose in the same context what is and isnt scritpure you have a huge problem with interpretaion, and you widely inconsitant in a hermanutical interpetation and therefore can be way off base in your application as you are here.
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As far as it being "good works" goes it has absolutely nothing to do with good works but with motivation as per Acts 10:31 ""but in every nation anyone who fears (reveres) him and does what is right is acceptable to him." Even the Muslims revere God. They may call him Allah but it is the one God. "Hear O Israel the Lord our God, the Lord is one." Middle eastern Christians often refer to God as Allah. (Dr. Farooq Ghasi). We are clearly told that God judges the heart. Neither you nor I can do that.
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Cough and sputter, no appolgies and I cannot accept that, at all in any way. The muslum faith in its intirety is myth, muhammed was a liar and false teacher and thief of the scriptures and chief among the wolves in sheeps clothing.
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"without knowing God one is not capable . . ." Who are we to judge who does and does not know God. All of the world's great faiths are ultimately worshiping the one and only God. How do they know what is right and what is wrong. We have been told that God has written his laws in our hearts.
You are so right about the difference between judging and discernment. But it is a very fine line and one that is easily crossed. If one looks at an individual and says he does not know Jesus he is condemned is not discernment it is judging. God alone knows who is condemned. I would not dare to make such a judgment. That is God's role alone.
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We will have to disagree on this one as usual.
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As far as telling whether one has the right motives or not I'm afraid that I do not have the gift to judge a person's motives unless one is openly a criminal or out for his own gain. As far as listening to someone preach goes as I have said talk is cheap. If they see by ones life and actions that one has a different and positive way of living they will ask and then are open to listening. If not then they will not listen and make it part of their life. If I go and speak to people in a different culture and language about things they do not understand and cannot understand then I have not done my job. If they see by my life and actions they too might decide to follow.
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Is that your way of saying you can discern somethings but not others?
Let me pull this quote out of the above quote for special emphasis:
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If I go and speak to people in a different culture and language about things they do not understand and cannot understand then I have not done my job. If they see by my life and actions they too might decide to follow
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Can you not speak spiritually from one to another? Does not God prepare the way and the heart of others, so that with words (and deed to) they see and understand that you point Gods way? I agree that right actions need to acompany the truthful word of a preacher, but its done in unison with the expression of your spirit as well, anything else is merely a waste of time and energy.