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Originally Posted by Ted
gmc 
Whichever way it goes the individual is dead. As I've said the religious don't seem to have a monopoly on murder. Yes, apparently the pope could have but that is subject to debate. That Stalin et al are brought up is a moot point? I don't think so. I'm simply showing that those on all sides commit murder. No one has a monopoly.
BTW when I can find the quote I will present it. There is a scholarly quote that shows that far more folks were killed by the likes of Stalin et al than in all the religious wars known.
I'm still not clear as to whether atheists support justice and peace. I can only presume that they exist in the same ratio as the rest of society.
Shalom
Ted |
No one ever claimed they did. trouble is many religious people seem to want to ignore the historical reality and pretend religious wars never happened. OK religion wasn't the sole cause and there are usually political and economic factors at play (you can have great fun arguing about what was the most important) and a thoroughly cynical manipulation of religious belief and there still is and it is still going on. If you can't appreciate what happened in the past you don't see it happening now. If all christians were christians and all muslims were muslim there would be no wars since both advocate tolerance and understanding. (Leaving aside the absurdity or otherwise of religious belief)
Why on earth do you think the individual is dead? Fascism, communism, theocracy (however disguised) all put the rights of the individual secondary to the state be it religious or non religious, with a few at the top in control and making all the decisions. (supreme leader or king anointed by god if you accept anothers right to absolute power you are no longer free) that's why I find myself opposed to all three. Though all have some good points that are worth paying attention to. The individual is only dead if people give up and accept what they are told and start to believe they have no rights to question things, or the social order or even to demand social change. You don't owe your freedom to kings or armies or religion but to people standing up saying I'm not accepting this I have as much right as you do.
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I'm still not clear as to whether atheists support justice and peace. I can only presume that they exist in the same ratio as the rest of society.
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Why would they not be? I don't understand why you need to ask the question. A belief in god or not has nothing to do with morality. You don't need religion to have a moral sense. People were talking about these things long before monotheism came long. Please don't tell me you are one of those that believes someone without religion is amoral.
Off topic perhaps but fun.