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Old 02-26-2008, 02:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
spot
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Re: is there proof of jesus

That's a bit of a biased site, Jimbo.

Tacitus wrote about 100AD by which time there were Christians in Rome, they told him what they believed. He's evidence of what the Christians in Rome believed, not of what happened. He wasn't even alive during the time the Gospels are set in.

Suetonius wrote about twenty years later than Tacitus and the same applies to him.

Josephus was earlier, but even he wasn't even alive during the time the Gospels are set in. The main passage about Jesus in his History of the Jews is considered a late fake add-on by Christians trying to build Jewish evidence for the Gospel story. Either way he's still reporting on what the Christians told him.

Here's an example of how the site exaggerates... it says: "Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of his followers."

What Mara Bar-Serapion actually wrote, some time after 70AD, is "What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given".

It doesn't mention Jesus by name at all, it implies there was a Wise King of the Jews not long before they had a catastrophe. I suspect it is a reference to Jesus put in language that echoes the original exile in Babylon, but what the site claims is an extreme interpretation and the entire article is stretched that thinly. Mara Bar-Serapion is certainly, like Tacitus, doing no more than writing down what he's heard others say about a man who died forty years earlier. It's good evidence that people in 75AD compared the proverbial wisdom of Jesus with that of Socrates (another person I actually think never existed) and Pythagoras.

No, there's absolutely no evidence at all of the physical existence of Jesus that would distinguish what you'd see if he were a fictional character in a set of morality stories. Not so much as a whisper of one. Nobody outside of Christianity who claimed to have met him and, to be honest, nobody inside Christianity either except for Paul who said he'd seen him on the Road to Damascus years after the crucifixion. Everyone else in the bible says they were told about him and nothing more.
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