A Letter To The Red States

[CVX]

Written By A Woman In New York
Posted on The Daily Show Web site
12-8-4

Sorry, I try not to deluge people with my ramblings. But I had to write this and, having written it, had to send it. Even though I don't know anyone I can send it to (without alienating my Republican in-laws, who are the only "middle country" people I know.)

I am writing this letter to the people in the red states in the middle of the country -- the people who voted for George W. Bush. I am writing this letter because I don't think we know each other.

So I'll make an introduction. I am a New Yorker who voted for John Kerry. I used to live in California, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. I used to live in Washington, DC, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. Kerry won in all three of those regions.

Maybe you want to know more about me. Or maybe not; maybe you think you know me already. You think I am some anti-American anarchist because I dislike George W. Bush. You think that I am immoral and anti-family, because I support women's reproductive freedom and gay rights. You think that I am dangerous, and even evil, because I do not abide by your religious beliefs.

Maybe you are content to think that, to write me off as a "liberal" -- the dreaded "L" word -- and rejoice that your candidate has triumphed over evil, immoral, anti-American, anti-family people like me. But maybe you are still curious. So here goes: this is who I am.

I am a New Yorker. I was here, in my apartment downtown, on September 11th. I watched the Towers burn from the roof of my building. I went inside so that I couldn't see them when they fell. I had friends who were inside. I have a friend who still has nightmares about watching people jump and fall from the Towers. He will never be the same. How many people like him do you know? People that can't sit in a restaurant without plotting an escape route, in case it blows up?

I am a worker. I work across the street from the Citigroup Center, which the government told us is a "target" of terrorism. Later, we found out they were relaying on very old information, but it was already too late. They had given me bad dreams again. The subway stop near my office was crowded with bomb-sniffing dogs, policemen in heavy protective gear, soldiers. Now, every time I enter or exit my office, all of my possessions are X-rayed to make sure I don't have any weapons. How often are you stopped by a soldier with a bomb-sniffing dog outside your office?

I am a neighbor. I have a neighbor who is a 9/11 widow. She has two children. My husband does odd jobs for her now, like building bookshelves. Things her husband should do. He uses her husband's tools, and the two little girls tell him, "Those are our daddy's tools." How many 9/11 widows and orphans do you know? How often do you fill in for their dead loved ones?

I am a taxpayer. I worked my butt off to get where I did, and so did my parents. My parents saved and borrowed and sent me to college. I worked my way through graduate school. I won a full tuition scholarship to law school. All for the privilege of working 2,600 hours last year. That works out to a 50 hour week, every week, without any vacation days at all. I get to work by 9 am and rarely leave before 9 pm. I eat dinner at my office much more often than I eat dinner at home. My husband and I paid over $70,000 in federal income tax last year. At some point in the future, we will have to pay much more -- once this country faces its deficit and the impossible burden of Social Security. In fact, the areas of the country that supported Kerry -- New York, California, Illinois, Massachusetts -- they are the financial centers of the nation. They are the tax base of this country. How much did you pay, Kansas? How much did you contribute to this government you support, Alabama? How much of this war in Iraq did you pay for?

I am a liberal. The funny part is, liberals have this reputation for living in Never-Neverland, being idealists, not being sensible. But let me tell you how I see the world: I see America as one nation in a world of nations. Therefore, I think we should try to get along with other nations. I see that gay people exist. Therefore, I think they should be allowed to exist, and be treated the same as other people. I see ways in which women are not allowed to control their own bodies. Therefore, I think we should give women more control over their bodies. I see that people have awful diseases. Therefore, I think we should enable scientists to try to cure them. I see that we have a Constitution. Therefore, I think it should be upheld. I see that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Therefore, I think that Iraq was not an imminent danger to me. It seems so pragmatic to me. How do you see the world? Do you really think voting against gay marriage will keep people from being gay? Would you really prefer that people continue to die from Parkinson's disease? Do you really not care about the Constitutional rights of political detainees? Would you really have supported the war if you knew the truth, or would you have wanted to spend more of our money on health care, job training, terrorism preparedness?

I am an American. I have an American flag flying outside my home. I love my home more than anything. I love that I grew up right outside New York City. I first went to the Statue of Liberty with my 5th grade class, and my mom and dad took me to the Empire State Building when I was 8. I love taking the subway to Yankee Stadium. I loved living in Washington DC and going on dates to the Lincoln Memorial. It is because I love this country so much that I argue with my political opponents as much I do.

I am not safe. I never feel safe. My in-laws live in a small town in Ohio, and that town has received more federal funding, per capita, for terrorism preparedness than New York City has. I take subways and buses every day. I work in a skyscraper across the street from a "target." I have emergency supplies and a spare pair of sneakers in my desk, in case somethng happens while I'm at work. Do you? How many times a month do you worry that your subway is going to blow up? When you hear sirens on the street, do you run to the window to make sure everything is okay? When you hear an airplane, do you flinch? Do you dread beautiful, blue-skied September days? I don't know a single New Yorker who doesn't spend the month of September on tip-toes, superstitiously praying for rain so we don't have to relive that beautiful, blue-skied day.

I am lonely. I feel that we, as a nation, have alienated all our friends and further provoked our enemies. I feel unprotected. Most of all I feel alienated from my fellow citizens, because I don't understand what you are thinking. You voted for a man who started a war in Iraq for no reason, against the wishes of the entire world. You voted for a man whose lack of foresight and inability to plan has led to massive insurgencies in Iraq, where weapons are disappearing into the hands of terrorists. You voted for a man who let Osama Bin Laden escape into the hills of Afghanistan so that he could start that war in Iraq. You voted for a man who doesn't want to let people love who they want to love; doesn't want to let doctors cure their patients; doesn't want to let women rule their destinies. I don't understand why you voted for this man. For me, it is not enough that he is personable; it is not enough that he seems like one of the guys. Why did you vote for him? Why did you elect a man that lied to us in order to convince us to go to war? (Ten years ago you were incensed when our president lied about his sex life; you thought it was an impeachable offense.) Why did you elect a leader who thinks that strength cannot include diplomacy or international cooperation? Why did you elect a man who did nothing except run away and hide on September 11?

Most of all, I am terrified. I mean daily, I am afraid that I will not survive this. I am afraid that I will lose my husband, that I will never have children, that I will never grow old and watch the sunset in a backyard of my own. I am afraid that my career -- which should end with a triumphant and good-natured roast at a retirement party in 2035 -- will be cut short by an attack on me and my colleagues, as we sit sending emails and making phone calls one ordinary afternoon. Is your life at stake? Are you terrified?

I don't think you are. I don't think you realize what you have done. And if anything happens to me or the people I love, I blame you. I wanted you to know that.

[xlt66]

That was a long piece and it didn't say anything inspiring. It did strengthen my belief that liberals really do consider themselves victims.

I don't think you are. I don't think you realize what you have done. And if anything happens to me or the people I love, I blame you. I wanted you to know that.

Oh please. Give all of us a break. Well, I blame you for anything that happens to me.

[A Karenina]

xlt66, surely you can do better than that? I'd really like to hear you respond to the questions the letter posed with clear and honest answers. Sincerely.

[anastrophe]

i don't get it. The Daily Show is a fake news show. i went to the site but couldn't find the letter.

in any event, the letter is pathetic. blame. that's what it boils down to. you don't agree with how she interprets the world, and you get blamed for her interpretation. great. real 'coming together' attitude.

[weeder]

Originally Posted by CVX

Written By A Woman In New York
Posted on The Daily Show Web site
12-8-4

Sorry, I try not to deluge people with my ramblings. But I had to write this and, having written it, had to send it. Even though I don't know anyone I can send it to (without alienating my Republican in-laws, who are the only "middle country" people I know.)

I am writing this letter to the people in the red states in the middle of the country -- the people who voted for George W. Bush. I am writing this letter because I don't think we know each other.

So I'll make an introduction. I am a New Yorker who voted for John Kerry. I used to live in California, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. I used to live in Washington, DC, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. Kerry won in all three of those regions.

Maybe you want to know more about me. Or maybe not; maybe you think you know me already. You think I am some anti-American anarchist because I dislike George W. Bush. You think that I am immoral and anti-family, because I support women's reproductive freedom and gay rights. You think that I am dangerous, and even evil, because I do not abide by your religious beliefs.

Maybe you are content to think that, to write me off as a "liberal" -- the dreaded "L" word -- and rejoice that your candidate has triumphed over evil, immoral, anti-American, anti-family people like me. But maybe you are still curious. So here goes: this is who I am.

I am a New Yorker. I was here, in my apartment downtown, on September 11th. I watched the Towers burn from the roof of my building. I went inside so that I couldn't see them when they fell. I had friends who were inside. I have a friend who still has nightmares about watching people jump and fall from the Towers. He will never be the same. How many people like him do you know? People that can't sit in a restaurant without plotting an escape route, in case it blows up?

I am a worker. I work across the street from the Citigroup Center, which the government told us is a "target" of terrorism. Later, we found out they were relaying on very old information, but it was already too late. They had given me bad dreams again. The subway stop near my office was crowded with bomb-sniffing dogs, policemen in heavy protective gear, soldiers. Now, every time I enter or exit my office, all of my possessions are X-rayed to make sure I don't have any weapons. How often are you stopped by a soldier with a bomb-sniffing dog outside your office?

I am a neighbor. I have a neighbor who is a 9/11 widow. She has two children. My husband does odd jobs for her now, like building bookshelves. Things her husband should do. He uses her husband's tools, and the two little girls tell him, "Those are our daddy's tools." How many 9/11 widows and orphans do you know? How often do you fill in for their dead loved ones?

I am a taxpayer. I worked my butt off to get where I did, and so did my parents. My parents saved and borrowed and sent me to college. I worked my way through graduate school. I won a full tuition scholarship to law school. All for the privilege of working 2,600 hours last year. That works out to a 50 hour week, every week, without any vacation days at all. I get to work by 9 am and rarely leave before 9 pm. I eat dinner at my office much more often than I eat dinner at home. My husband and I paid over $70,000 in federal income tax last year. At some point in the future, we will have to pay much more -- once this country faces its deficit and the impossible burden of Social Security. In fact, the areas of the country that supported Kerry -- New York, California, Illinois, Massachusetts -- they are the financial centers of the nation. They are the tax base of this country. How much did you pay, Kansas? How much did you contribute to this government you support, Alabama? How much of this war in Iraq did you pay for?

I am a liberal. The funny part is, liberals have this reputation for living in Never-Neverland, being idealists, not being sensible. But let me tell you how I see the world: I see America as one nation in a world of nations. Therefore, I think we should try to get along with other nations. I see that gay people exist. Therefore, I think they should be allowed to exist, and be treated the same as other people. I see ways in which women are not allowed to control their own bodies. Therefore, I think we should give women more control over their bodies. I see that people have awful diseases. Therefore, I think we should enable scientists to try to cure them. I see that we have a Constitution. Therefore, I think it should be upheld. I see that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Therefore, I think that Iraq was not an imminent danger to me. It seems so pragmatic to me. How do you see the world? Do you really think voting against gay marriage will keep people from being gay? Would you really prefer that people continue to die from Parkinson's disease? Do you really not care about the Constitutional rights of political detainees? Would you really have supported the war if you knew the truth, or would you have wanted to spend more of our money on health care, job training, terrorism preparedness?

I am an American. I have an American flag flying outside my home. I love my home more than anything. I love that I grew up right outside New York City. I first went to the Statue of Liberty with my 5th grade class, and my mom and dad took me to the Empire State Building when I was 8. I love taking the subway to Yankee Stadium. I loved living in Washington DC and going on dates to the Lincoln Memorial. It is because I love this country so much that I argue with my political opponents as much I do.

I am not safe. I never feel safe. My in-laws live in a small town in Ohio, and that town has received more federal funding, per capita, for terrorism preparedness than New York City has. I take subways and buses every day. I work in a skyscraper across the street from a "target." I have emergency supplies and a spare pair of sneakers in my desk, in case somethng happens while I'm at work. Do you? How many times a month do you worry that your subway is going to blow up? When you hear sirens on the street, do you run to the window to make sure everything is okay? When you hear an airplane, do you flinch? Do you dread beautiful, blue-skied September days? I don't know a single New Yorker who doesn't spend the month of September on tip-toes, superstitiously praying for rain so we don't have to relive that beautiful, blue-skied day.

I am lonely. I feel that we, as a nation, have alienated all our friends and further provoked our enemies. I feel unprotected. Most of all I feel alienated from my fellow citizens, because I don't understand what you are thinking. You voted for a man who started a war in Iraq for no reason, against the wishes of the entire world. You voted for a man whose lack of foresight and inability to plan has led to massive insurgencies in Iraq, where weapons are disappearing into the hands of terrorists. You voted for a man who let Osama Bin Laden escape into the hills of Afghanistan so that he could start that war in Iraq. You voted for a man who doesn't want to let people love who they want to love; doesn't want to let doctors cure their patients; doesn't want to let women rule their destinies. I don't understand why you voted for this man. For me, it is not enough that he is personable; it is not enough that he seems like one of the guys. Why did you vote for him? Why did you elect a man that lied to us in order to convince us to go to war? (Ten years ago you were incensed when our president lied about his sex life; you thought it was an impeachable offense.) Why did you elect a leader who thinks that strength cannot include diplomacy or international cooperation? Why did you elect a man who did nothing except run away and hide on September 11?

Most of all, I am terrified. I mean daily, I am afraid that I will not survive this. I am afraid that I will lose my husband, that I will never have children, that I will never grow old and watch the sunset in a backyard of my own. I am afraid that my career -- which should end with a triumphant and good-natured roast at a retirement party in 2035 -- will be cut short by an attack on me and my colleagues, as we sit sending emails and making phone calls one ordinary afternoon. Is your life at stake? Are you terrified?

I don't think you are. I don't think you realize what you have done. And if anything happens to me or the people I love, I blame you. I wanted you to know that.

Cvx Your post gave me goose bumps. I am also a lfelong New Yorker..... very proud of that. I left New York eight years ago,,,, went to live in
the upper south, last year I came down further south. Leaving New York was an
incredible eye opener. New Yorkers who never leave, never experience how different the thinking is in other states in our country. Most choices are based on religious beliefs or on some family tradition of sticking to one party or another.
Repubican, Democratic etc.... I am not great at discussing politics, However. I am
knowledgeable enough to be frightened of any government leader who is a war monger. I also understand that we have put the fate of our future in the hands
of mad men. The problem ( it seems to me) is that many states in the United States are 30 years behind the times. Poor levels of education, poverty, small minded thinking, and fear have kept the population in a position where they are
not equipt to make decisions. Many people in our country are more afraid of
Northerners than they are of terrorists. Because we are the troublemakers who are right under their noses. September 11 is like Raiders of the lost Ark. Some
fantasy horror that happened, some story that was unsettling at the time.. but then fades away. I have always known that people in number have the power to change things. Ive tried to convay that message to groups during the course of my life.Unfortunately they dont believe it, or its too much trouble. The most frightening reality to me is that I believe our government leaders want the bulk of our population to remain crippled. When people get up every day concerned
with keeping their heat bill paid, finding some work that will pay the car payment
to keep them getting to the job, that keeps the heat bill paid....... there isnt room
in their lives to spend time gathering information to make decisions that change anything. Just go with the flow.... Put the fate of yourself and your children into
the hands of someone else. Buy into the crap of all the things you are promised
believe that whoever it is running the show has the best interests of the people at heart. Why is it that we the country " That can do anything??????? cant clean
up the drug problem here? Cant come up with a solution? Because its good for the bulk of the population to remain stymed and doped up. So a Handful of
arrogant, power hungry individuals can make the decisions that risk the lives of
our nation and the world. Give them more graphic television shows like Nip and Tuck.. to keep them distracte and amused. More choices at Mcdonalds so they think they have The Good Life.... while we plot the course of their lives.And of course I have to say... I have always been proud to be an american, have been very greatful to be free. Have told my children how different it is in other countrys
how grateful they should be... But recently we have lost the ball. My heart bleeds for the mothers who have lost their son and daughters in this latest war.
I have always known that I would take my sons to the end of the earth before Id let some suit decide that they were being shipped off to some desert to die.
I was sitting at a counter in a kitchen.. in the beautiful Shenendoah Valley when
those planes hit the World Trade Center. I will never forget it as long as I live.
My baby sister who is also an attorney in New Yor had taken a deposition up there the previous day. So in the days following, of course I did a lot of thinking about fate. In the aftermath beginning to understand how life as we have known it is forever changed.... I realized that my dream of going to see many other countries, was destroyed. Thank God for people like you. Who not only have the ability, but more importantly the courage to speak your mind. Uderstand though
that they do not understand what they have done.

[Clint]

I’m afraid, I’m lonely, I’m not safe, Im terrified, I, me, I, me, I, me... me me liberal.

I don’t have a fall on my face before the president mentality. I’m just glad we have the president we have, given the choices.

Reality is something we have to face. The reality is that we live in a dangerous world that didn’t emerge all of a sudden in the first 8 months of George Bush’s presidency. The fear of getting someone hurt or losing the political edge allowed our enemies to strengthen to the point they could do what they have done. They didn’t have any way of knowing George Bush would react any differently than the previous president.

You will die. I will die. That’s life. Some would prefer to die begging their enemy not to hurt them. Thank you but that’s not acceptable to me.

Oh, a little about me. I've put my life where my mouth is.

[anastrophe]

Originally Posted by weeder

Cvx Your post gave me goose bumps. I am also a lfelong New Yorker..... very proud of that. I left New York eight years ago,,,, went to live in
the upper south, last year I came down further south. Leaving New York was an
incredible eye opener. New Yorkers who never leave, never experience how different the thinking is in other states in our country. Most choices are based on religious beliefs or on some family tradition of sticking to one party or another.
Repubican, Democratic etc.... I am not great at discussing politics, However. I am
knowledgeable enough to be frightened of any government leader who is a war monger. I also understand that we have put the fate of our future in the hands
of mad men. The problem ( it seems to me) is that many states in the United States are 30 years behind the times. Poor levels of education, poverty, small minded thinking, and fear have kept the population in a position where they are
not equipt to make decisions.

sigh. there you have it. the only possible way someone could _not_ lean to the liberal left is that they have poor levels of education - they are small minded thinkers. of course. how foolish of me to think that half of this country's population is _not_ mentally retarded for having voted not to put kerry in the white house.

Many people in our country are more afraid of
Northerners than they are of terrorists. Because we are the troublemakers who are right under their noses. September 11 is like Raiders of the lost Ark. Some
fantasy horror that happened, some story that was unsettling at the time.. but then fades away.

contrast the above with:

My heart bleeds for the mothers who have lost their son and daughters in this latest war.

so, 9/11 was a fantasy horror, that quickly faded away for you, apparently. does your heart not bleed for the mothers (and fathers, seems you left that out) who lost their sons and daughters in the actual horror of 9/11?

I have always known that people in number have the power to change things. Ive tried to convay that message to groups during the course of my life.Unfortunately they dont believe it, or its too much trouble. The most frightening reality to me is that I believe our government leaders want the bulk of our population to remain crippled. When people get up every day concerned
with keeping their heat bill paid, finding some work that will pay the car payment
to keep them getting to the job, that keeps the heat bill paid....... there isnt room
in their lives to spend time gathering information to make decisions that change anything. Just go with the flow.... Put the fate of yourself and your children into
the hands of someone else. Buy into the crap of all the things you are promised
believe that whoever it is running the show has the best interests of the people at heart. Why is it that we the country " That can do anything??????? cant clean
up the drug problem here? Cant come up with a solution? Because its good for the bulk of the population to remain stymed and doped up. So a Handful of
arrogant, power hungry individuals can make the decisions that risk the lives of
our nation and the world. Give them more graphic television shows like Nip and Tuck.. to keep them distracte and amused. More choices at Mcdonalds so they think they have The Good Life.... while we plot the course of their lives.And of course I have to say... I have always been proud to be an american, have been very greatful to be free. Have told my children how different it is in other countrys
how grateful they should be... But recently we have lost the ball.

let me ask you this. if bill clinton were president right now, would you still maintain all that you have written above? because nothing you've written above is any different from how things were during mr. clinton's administration. or are you suggesting that there was no drug problem during his administration, and that graphic television and mcdonalds were merely benign, normal parts of life during his time in office?

My heart bleeds for the mothers who have lost their son and daughters in this latest war.
I have always known that I would take my sons to the end of the earth before Id let some suit decide that they were being shipped off to some desert to die.

you are aware that we have a volunteer military, are you not? nobody has been drafted into service in nearly thirty years.

notwithstanding the government's calling-up of aging reserves recently, which is a pretty heinous abuse of the system. but still - so 'suit' decided to ship anyone off to the desert to die. amazingly enough, the *vast* majority of those serving in iraq and afghanistan *want* to be there. i know, incredible, but true. of course, you'll never hear their stories on the news. someone wants to serve their country? nah. they've been hoodwinked. there can be no other explanation, right?

I was sitting at a counter in a kitchen.. in the beautiful Shenendoah Valley when
those planes hit the World Trade Center. I will never forget it as long as I live.
My baby sister who is also an attorney in New Yor had taken a deposition up there the previous day. So in the days following, of course I did a lot of thinking about fate. In the aftermath beginning to understand how life as we have known it is forever changed.... I realized that my dream of going to see many other countries, was destroyed. Thank God for people like you. Who not only have the ability, but more importantly the courage to speak your mind. Uderstand though
that they do not understand what they have done.

i'm sorry, but that's deeply offensive to me. this is as divisive as the original post. lip service to how we are all americans whether we disagree or not - it's more about how those who do not agree with you are deluded, stupid, misguided, or hoodwinked by the vast corporate-military-right wing-neocon-conspiracy.

and my post here, of course, is no better.

i really wonder if it will ever be possible for this country to get back to a time where, except for the lunatic fringe, people could be republican or democrat without there being this great chasm between our world views.

[A Karenina]

Originally Posted by Clint

I’m afraid, I’m lonely, I’m not safe, Im terrified, I, me, I, me, I, me... me me liberal.

I don’t have a fall on my face before the president mentality. I’m just glad we have the president we have, given the choices.

Reality is something we have to face. The reality is that we live in a dangerous world that didn’t emerge all of a sudden in the first 8 months of George Bush’s presidency. The fear of getting someone hurt or losing the political edge allowed our enemies to strengthen to the point they could do what they have done. They didn’t have any way of knowing George Bush would react any differently than the previous president.

You will die. I will die. That’s life. Some would prefer to die begging their enemy not to hurt them. Thank you but that’s not acceptable to me.

Oh, a little about me. I've put my life where my mouth is.

Have you put your life where your mouth is? I only ask this biting question because you so often affirm your faith in Christ and yet are very quick to insult and degrade others who disagree with you. It's only something to think about. Please don't answer unless you feel the need and can respond with something more insightful than name-calling.

That being said, and I agree it was a bit nasty, it's true that the only guarantee we have is that we will die. We may not get to choose much about the circumstances of our death, but we do have firm control over the circumstances of our life.

Some people approach this war with a different attitude. It's all well and fine to point out your enemy, but is there any consideration of what has made him your enemy?

Clint, you choose to die rather than "beg" for mercy. That's your right, but it isn't quite the same for everyone...and pride is a sin, isn't it?

Is it begging to deeply consider what has caused the problems we face? Would that somehow make a person weak? Is it spineless or begging to think on something and have a change of heart? I wouldn't think so, considering the bible says that the redeemed sinner is more loved. That would imply it takes a lot to have a change of heart, and that it is a postive thing.

As usual, the support for the war is not based on an open mind with clear thought in its defense, but on name calling, deriding other people's choices, and of course their political affiliation.
While you may be sick of the "me me me liberal" mentality, others are equally sick of the hypocritical hate-filled rhetoric that spews from the other side.

So, if the questions could be answered with reason, logic, and intelligence, I'd really appreciate it.

[A Karenina]

Originally Posted by anastrophe

so, 9/11 was a fantasy horror, that quickly faded away for you, apparently. does your heart not bleed for the mothers (and fathers, seems you left that out) who lost their sons and daughters in the actual horror of 9/11?

Jumping in here ~ there are still people, like myself, who are not convinced of the connection between Iraq and 9/11. If you remove this connection, even temporarily, then you can see why anti-Iraq people get so upset...We, ok I, I am feeling that the real killers are getting away with it as we goose-chase elsewhere. We all bleed for 9/11. We do it in different ways.

Originally Posted by anastrophe

and my post here, of course, is no better.

Your self-honesty is wonderful. Just thought you should know that.

Originally Posted by anastrophe

i really wonder if it will ever be possible for this country to get back to a time where, except for the lunatic fringe, people could be republican or democrat without there being this great chasm between our world views.

I don't think we ever had such a time. Any part of American history has been filled with opposing ideologies fighting for some change or other. All are despised at the time. For instance, the labor movement was heavily Socialist and we still spit on them...yet people today largely accept the notion of workers' rights. (I refer to the really obvious stuff like child labor).

What we do is to label and then condemn according to that label. I personally hope that we can progress enough to at least consider another point of view, even if it does come from an opposing party. Of course, I also hope that we can create a reasonable party that ignores the far left and far right battle.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by A Karenina

Have you put your life where your mouth is? I only ask this biting question because you so often affirm your faith in Christ and yet are very quick to insult and degrade others who disagree with you. It's only something to think about. Please don't answer unless you feel the need and can respond with something more insightful than name-calling.

That being said, and I agree it was a bit nasty, it's true that the only guarantee we have is that we will die. We may not get to choose much about the circumstances of our death, but we do have firm control over the circumstances of our life.

Some people approach this war with a different attitude. It's all well and fine to point out your enemy, but is there any consideration of what has made him your enemy?

Clint, you choose to die rather than "beg" for mercy. That's your right, but it isn't quite the same for everyone...and pride is a sin, isn't it?

Is it begging to deeply consider what has caused the problems we face? Would that somehow make a person weak? Is it spineless or begging to think on something and have a change of heart? I wouldn't think so, considering the bible says that the redeemed sinner is more loved. That would imply it takes a lot to have a change of heart, and that it is a postive thing.

As usual, the support for the war is not based on an open mind with clear thought in its defense, but on name calling, deriding other people's choices, and of course their political affiliation.
While you may be sick of the "me me me liberal" mentality, others are equally sick of the hypocritical hate-filled rhetoric that spews from the other side.

So, if the questions could be answered with reason, logic, and intelligence, I'd really appreciate it.

One of the things that irks me the most about the “me” people is that they think everyone else is motivated and responds the same way they are/do. I said I had put my life where my mouth was and you assume that because you don’t subscribe to the same definition of truth that I do, I must be lying. Even though your question doesn’t deserve an answer, the answer is “yes”. If you wish to insult me, call me a name but don’t call into question my honesty.

Just because what I say hits a nerve with you it’s “name calling”. If you are ashamed of the word “liberal” then you have a lot of recanting to do.

If you think that because I talk about my faith in Christ I’m supposed to be mushy, you don’t understand the faith you have so many opinions about. The thing I admire most about Christ is that he didn’t back down. He stood for what he said and what his mission was all the way to the cross. He didn’t beg his enemies and he didn’t compromise. What he did was totally selfless. His actions were not prideful.

I’m honored to be conversing with the “clear minded” people on this forum. I’m so tired of being in this fog of reality.

It isn’t hypocritical to support something you are willing to put your life on the line for. But then, how would you know.