Last straws..

[Mystery]

Perhaps this has been discussed before, but it's on my mind just now due to a situation in my area yesterday. Across the river from where I work, a disgruntled city employee went into an attorney's office and opened fire. After a 10+ hour stand-off, two of the hostages were dead, 3 in the hospital, and the shooter was killed by law enforcement. No negotations worked, and trust me, they tried everything.

So anyway, this is the issue I'm thinking about...

This man was depressed in recent years, surviving deaths of 2 of his close relatives (one was a daughter). I've heard several people commenting, and stating that mental illness isn't an excuse, which I agree with, but they take it further by saying there is no such thing as "snapping". Do you agree? Many of these commenters are basing what they're saying by claiming this act had to be planned out, etc, due to the fact that he carried the weapon into the building with him. However, premeditation does not mean someone is not mentally ill. In fact, the "snapping" (don't really like that term) coul dhave occured prior to the first incident, and the planning coul dhave been within that foggy state.

Am I making sense here? Do we, as a society, really not consider that sometimes people really are sick, and that the crimes they commit are, really, out of character?

I, in no way, believe that a person's mental illness should excuse them from unacceptable behavior, however we also need to recognize just how severely those illnesses can impact all areas of life, and just how quickly the condition can deteriorate.

[minks]

I have changed my opinion on this topic since I last heard of similar incidents.

Here in this country there is such a strain on the healthcare world, that mental illness is going unchecked. I believe some people do snap.

Sadly it's also used as a cop-out.

I relate to the recent incident here in my community where a 17 year old was killed by a 19 year old by a blow to the head with a pick axe. It was horrific and tragic. Kids from all over the place have blogged about this, have been on Facebook etc. One person wrote in of a similar incident in their area and said the attacker go off on lesser charges cause he pleaded... mental illness.... people who knew the killer said he was as normal as could be.

I think we as society have put way to much strain on the human, we are not allowing for down time and it's all a matter of perform, perform perform. IMHOP it has got out of hand. In turn, it's being used as a crappy cop out cause it's an easy thing to use, and abuse.

[Mystery]

Originally Posted by minks

I have changed my opinion on this topic since I last heard of similar incidents.

Here in this country there is such a strain on the healthcare world, that mental illness is going unchecked. I believe some people do snap.

Sadly it's also used as a cop-out.

I relate to the recent incident here in my community where a 17 year old was killed by a 19 year old by a blow to the head with a pick axe. It was horrific and tragic. Kids from all over the place have blogged about this, have been on Facebook etc. One person wrote in of a similar incident in their area and said the attacker go off on lesser charges cause he pleaded... mental illness.... people who knew the killer said he was as normal as could be.

I think we as society have put way to much strain on the human, we are not allowing for down time and it's all a matter of perform, perform perform. IMHOP it has got out of hand. In turn, it's being used as a crappy cop out cause it's an easy thing to use, and abuse.

I think the overuse of it is a problem as well, but that can also be laid at the feet of the fact that stringent evaluations and assessments are not completed. It's become far too easy to plead mental illness when no mental illness is present. It then lessens the impact of those cases that really do involve these disorders.

I want to make certain, too, that it's understood I'm not excusing what this man did. It's deplorable to take innocent lives because you feel put upon by impossible situations.

[sunny104]

I believe we can snap. We were just talking about this in my clinical class at school the other night.

[minks]

Originally Posted by Mystery

I think the overuse of it is a problem as well, but that can also be laid at the feet of the fact that stringent evaluations and assessments are not completed. It's become far too easy to plead mental illness when no mental illness is present. It then lessens the impact of those cases that really do involve these disorders.

I want to make certain, too, that it's understood I'm not excusing what this man did. It's deplorable to take innocent lives because you feel put upon by impossible situations.

Oh I understand you Mystery. Yes I have to wonder about this plea of mental illness after one commits awful crimes.... Do we look at the offender and say ok, no prior mental illness to heck with you off to jail you go? Do we look at the offender and say OMG you are mentally ill, you were failed ok you need help you get the help? Help after the fact gosh I dunno, generally who will pay for the offenders treatment... our tax dollars yikes so we are paying to cure yet another offender... its such a catch 22

[Mystery]

Originally Posted by sunny104

I believe we can snap. We were just talking about this in my clinical class at school the other night.

Well, it's something I covered in numerous courses throughout school as well, and I agree.

Originally Posted by minks

Oh I understand you Mystery. Yes I have to wonder about this plea of mental illness after one commits awful crimes.... Do we look at the offender and say ok, no prior mental illness to heck with you off to jail you go? Do we look at the offender and say OMG you are mentally ill, you were failed ok you need help you get the help? Help after the fact gosh I dunno, generally who will pay for the offenders treatment... our tax dollars yikes so we are paying to cure yet another offender... its such a catch 22

Exactly! It's hard to say that we should give leniency when there is no documented proof of a prior history; or, in the least, a very good assessment when it's claimed. What gets me, is many times, the attorneys are responsible for finding an evaluating therapist = that almost shows bias.

Anyway, for the situation at hand, I'm not so much questioning the presence of mental illness as I am questioning just how much understanding there is about the severity of clinical depression and the like. Some were saying a depressed person wouldn't just snap, etc, and that's just not correct.

[minks]

Originally Posted by Mystery

Well, it's something I covered in numerous courses throughout school as well, and I agree.




Exactly! It's hard to say that we should give leniency when there is no documented proof of a prior history; or, in the least, a very good assessment when it's claimed. What gets me, is many times, the attorneys are responsible for finding an evaluating therapist = that almost shows bias.

Anyway, for the situation at hand, I'm not so much questioning the presence of mental illness as I am questioning just how much understanding there is about the severity of clinical depression and the like. Some were saying a depressed person wouldn't just snap, etc, and that's just not correct.

I think everybody no matter their medical state can "snap" What has to happen is learning how to control it from becoming a murderous situation.

"snapping" does not mean you go out and kill anybody no matter what.

[Fibonacci]

I guess every one has a point where they just can't handle any more stress.

Something in their mind switches on or off and they change. For 5 minutes, 10 minutes, or even forever, they're not the same person once it happens.

minks, i couldnt agree with you more.

[cinamin]

I have actually "snapped" before. But I didn't go about murdering people. The last time I "snapped" I went to the other woman who my then live-in boyfriend was also seeing and confronted her at her job. I then left him. And later I heard that someone said that I'd "snapped". But I feel that I did a somewhat constructive action when I did. I will definitely say that I was totally aware of what I was doing the entire time. I did not feel crazy in the least.

[Mystery]

Perhaps a better phrase is to break from reality. When someone becomes so overwhelmed with, well, whatever, they lose touch. They become suicidal, homicidal, etc. They have gotten to the point in which they simply cannot take anymore and they seem to lose the ability to discriminate right from wrong.