$20 Million Fence Not Good Enough. New One Going Up.

[RedGlitter]

Homeland Security Scrapping, Replacing Sub-Par Virtual Fence Along Arizona-Mexico Border

Wednesday, April 23, 2008



TUCSON, Arizona —
The government will replace its highly touted "virtual fence" on the Arizona-Mexico border with new towers, radars, cameras and computer software, scrapping the brand-new $20 million system because it doesn't work sufficiently, officials said. The move comes just two months after Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff officially accepted the completed fence from The Boeing Co.
With the decision, Customs and Border Protection officials are acknowledging that the pilot program to detect illegal immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border doesn't work well enough to keep or to continue tweaking.
Chertoff accepted the program on Feb. 22 after Boeing apparently resolved software glitches. But less than a week later, the Government Accountability Office told Congress it "did not fully meet user needs and the project's design will not be used as the basis for future" developments.
The project is made up of nine towers along a 28-mile (45-kilometer) section of border straddling the border crossing at Sasabe, southwest of Tucson. DHS will put in about 17 new towers, some holding just communications gear, others featuring new cameras or new radars, at an undetermined cost.
The department also is spending at least $45 million to have a customized computer program written so the collected data is more quickly and efficiently fed to Border Patrol agents.
Although the system is operating today, it hasn't come close to meeting the Border Patrol's goals, said Kelly Good, deputy director of the Secure Border Initiative program office in Washington.
"Probably not to the level that Border Patrol agents on the ground thought that they were going to get. So it didn't meet their expectations."
Agents began using the virtual fence last December, and the towers have resulted in more than 3,000 detentions since, said Greg Giddens, executive director of the SBI program office in Washington.
But that's just a fraction of the several hundred illegal immigrants believed to cross through the Sasabe corridor daily.
The towers, equipped with radars, optical and thermal imaging cameras and other sensors, are supposed to show nearby Border Patrol agents a complete picture of the border on the laptop computers in their patrol trucks. But the system's less-than-optimal results have been heavily criticized by politicians and others.
The virtual fence is part of a national plan to use physical barriers and high-tech detection capabilities to secure the Mexican border — and ultimately the Canadian boundary too.
Boeing used off-the-shelf software and other equipment initially to get the system up and running quickly.
"Boeing has delivered a system that the Border Patrol currently is operating 24 hours a day," Boeing spokeswoman Deborah Bosick said. She declined further immediate comment.
The pilot project was not intended to be the final, state-of-the-art system for catching illegal immigrants, Giddens said.
The problems with the system involved not just the computer software but the radar and satellite links used to send the information. All will be replaced with different types.

[Jester]

Kills me.


If we really wanted to we could secure the border over night.

All you need is to let the US military train on the southern border, give them rules of engagement that allow them to shoot intruders beyond a certain point across the border. And to leave the bodies where they drop.

Our illegal immigration problem from the southern border will end over night.

[Bryn Mawr]

Originally Posted by Jester

Kills me.


If we really wanted to we could secure the border over night.

All you need is to let the US military train on the southern border, give them rules of engagement that allow them to shoot intruders beyond a certain point across the border. And to leave the bodies where they drop.

Our illegal immigration problem from the southern border will end over night.

If there's an easy way and a bloody way then there's only one choice isn't there.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Jester

Kills me.


If we really wanted to we could secure the border over night.

All you need is to let the US military train on the southern border, give them rules of engagement that allow them to shoot intruders beyond a certain point across the border. And to leave the bodies where they drop.

Our illegal immigration problem from the southern border will end over night.

A well layed out mine field would work. Once planted, not much manpower needed.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by hoppy

A well layed out mine field would work. Once planted, not much manpower needed.

Of course a giant compressed air expanding glueball round fired by radar in multiples of 5000 at anything that moves would do the trick as well... its a bit more humane...

Think of the scene in the incredibles when Mr. Incredible is shot by those sticky expanding glue balls and brought to a full stop as they swell around him!

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr

If there's an easy way and a bloody way then there's only one choice isn't there.

Bryn, I wasnt advocating we do that, just making the point that if we really ment biz on our southern border we could stop illegal immigration very quickly and easily.


The truth is we dont really want to stop it and most dont even want to control it.

Personally I think we ought to close the border, search everyone and every container that comes through there at the expense of the Importer, and make sure evey truck that came through met DOT standards for both drivers and truck, or it sits at the mexican side and rots till it does.

My solution is simpler though, still bloody simple... Anyone can enter the US with a thumbprint and a back ground check, free of charge to them. If they commit any crime in the US (as simple as driving without a license for example... We round them up, give them a standard parachute, and drop them by air from 4000 feet off a static line in the state of thier origin. If they try to reenter the country they can returned once only, from 4000 feet, no static line, no chute.

If they commit a violent crime, any and all blood relatives of the offender are deported by car over the border and the offender is executed.

I'd close the border with a 15 foot tall double wall chain link fence, seperated by a minefield 200 yards deep. Anybody caught on the inside wall is fair game to be shot.

Illegal immigration would stop in a year, and the non criminals on our southern border would be welcomed to the US as law abiding immigrants.

Using the US military to patrol and handle the air deportation woudlnt increase the cost... we could just shift them form the european theater, the chain link fence is relatively inexpensive, and we can use the current police forces to monitor the criminal element, and the current border patrol to conduct felony captures of criminals in the US.

If we do this by thumbprint and make it free to the immigrant then the illegal transport of persons over the border by the criminal element on the other side is reduced as well. Its safer for the law abiding immigrant even in their own country.

To get it started I'd order the fence built first, a 90 day amnesty to any immigrant that can prove they have been here legally or illegally continuously for two full years, or anyone who actually can prove they own property (deed). A huge show of force as the military deploys for thier part, and I'd move the border patrol to guard only entrance/exit checkpoints.

To save money though we could use some sort of catepault instead of airdropping them, still use the chute Idea though, but its not as accurate to gettign them back to the state they originated from.

Oh and I'd stop paying the mexican government aide as well.

[Bryn Mawr]

Originally Posted by Jester

Bryn, I wasnt advocating we do that, just making the point that if we really ment biz on our southern border we could stop illegal immigration very quickly and easily.


The truth is we dont really want to stop it and most dont even want to control it.

Personally I think we ought to close the border, search everyone and every container that comes through there at the expense of the Importer, and make sure evey truck that came through met DOT standards for both drivers and truck, or it sits at the mexican side and rots till it does.

My solution is simpler though, still bloody simple... Anyone can enter the US with a thumbprint and a back ground check, free of charge to them. If they commit any crime in the US (as simple as driving without a license for example... We round them up, give them a standard parachute, and drop them by air from 4000 feet off a static line in the state of thier origin. If they try to reenter the country they can returned once only, from 4000 feet, no static line, no chute.

If they commit a violent crime, any and all blood relatives of the offender are deported by car over the border and the offender is executed.

I'd close the border with a 15 foot tall double wall chain link fence, seperated by a minefield 200 yards deep. Anybody caught on the inside wall is fair game to be shot.

Illegal immigration would stop in a year, and the non criminals on our southern border would be welcomed to the US as law abiding immigrants.

Using the US military to patrol and handle the air deportation woudlnt increase the cost... we could just shift them form the european theater, the chain link fence is relatively inexpensive, and we can use the current police forces to monitor the criminal element, and the current border patrol to conduct felony captures of criminals in the US.

If we do this by thumbprint and make it free to the immigrant then the illegal transport of persons over the border by the criminal element on the other side is reduced as well. Its safer for the law abiding immigrant even in their own country.

To get it started I'd order the fence built first, a 90 day amnesty to any immigrant that can prove they have been here legally or illegally continuously for two full years, or anyone who actually can prove they own property (deed). A huge show of force as the military deploys for thier part, and I'd move the border patrol to guard only entrance/exit checkpoints.

To save money though we could use some sort of catepault instead of airdropping them, still use the chute Idea though, but its not as accurate to gettign them back to the state they originated from.

Oh and I'd stop paying the mexican government aide as well.

You're obviously correct that no-one in office wants to prevent, or even slow down, illegal immigration.

Your solution still seems too complex and puts the onus on the law enforcement agencies to catch them.

Pass a law that anyone found to have employed an illegal immigrant, even if only as casual labour, will be jailed. Where the employer is a company, the definition of employed includes not only the immediate manager but each person in the chain of command up to and including the CEO and every person in HR involved in taking that person on up to and including the VP of Personnel.

It's already been shown that, when an area has, or even threatens, a crackdown on the employment of illegal immigrants, then they move elsewhere. Make it nationwide and total and they will leave because it is economically infeasible to stay.

[FUBAR]

True. If the law dealt more harshly on the employers there would be no illegal immigrants as why would a manager run the risk. It is a bit strange though that a country built on immigrants is complaining about immigration. After all, if they disappeared who would pick the crops or wash the dishes? All the low paid would demand more pay as these illegals help keep pay lower than if they were gone.

[RedGlitter]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

True. If the law dealt more harshly on the employers there would be no illegal immigrants as why would a manager run the risk. It is a bit strange though that a country built on immigrants is complaining about immigration. After all, if they disappeared who would pick the crops or wash the dishes? All the low paid would demand more pay as these illegals help keep pay lower than if they were gone.

As rightly they should, Fubar. All people need a living wage. That's why that argument goes out the window. Americans don't want to pick berries for $5 an hour for darned good reason. And it isn't laziness or pride either.
It is not our fault that Mexico pays sh*t. It is not our place to help them. (Although I'm sure someone will now bring up the current war and ask why USA is helping *that*)

Yes it is ironic about the immigrant thing, however I beg to say that the immigrants who came to America in older days were more respectful and wanted to become part of America instead of turning it all into Little Italy or whatever.

Getting back to the main point though, the answer is NO ONE. Employers would be forced to hire Americans and pay a decent rate. If they can't afford that then they had better start washing dishes themselves.

[Accountable]

Beat me to it, Red. I couldn't have said it better.