What do you think of T Boone Pickens' Plan?

[Accountable]

I've read his bio. This is not standard stuff. I don't believe the guy has turned over a new leaf. This is a business venture, pure and simple. But is it a business venture good for America? What do you think?

http://www.pickensplan.com/



ps: When you click on his bio, read the "political interests and contributions" section.

[Snidely Whiplash]

If I get out of his plan what he means, he's saying "do everything".....

Drill, solar, wind power, coal, nuclear, etc....

That is the true solution to the energy problems we face.... Get mongo energy from our own country right now and STOP sending our money to nutjob middle eastern countries that hate us, start drilling offshore and on land, espesh ANWAR which is a perfect and huge energy source and void of wildlife unlike the enviro-nuts would have you believe, and let the techies and scientists develope the next generation of electric, wind, natural gas, hydrogen and solar power as we keep going on what our own country can easily provide us for as long as it takes to perfect the next generation of fuels and energy sources....... THAT IS THE ANSWER...!!!

Don't listen to the lib's and the enviro-wacko's, unless you want to say bye-bye to your life styles and way of life, they want you all to be living in mud huts and walking to work in twine scandels...........

We need MORE OIL, WE NEED IT NOW, and we need to STOP these politicians and environmental activists from allowing our society and lives to MOVE FORWARD, INSTEAD OF BACKWARDS..! WHICH IS WHAT OBAMA, PALOSI and REED AND THE OTHER LIB"S and ENVIRO-WACKO'S WANT FOR THIS COUNTRY..!!!!

I don't want that for me and my family and friends...... I think T. Boone Pickens is right on with his ideas..... It beats a tire inflation guage hands down, and is a real answer...........

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by Snidely Whiplash

If I get out of his plan what he means, he's saying "do everything".....

Drill, solar, wind power, coal, nuclear, etc....

That is the true solution to the energy problems we face.... Get mongo energy from our own country right now and STOP sending our money to nutjob middle eastern countries that hate us, start drilling offshore and on land, espesh ANWAR which is a perfect and huge energy source and void of wildlife unlike the enviro-nuts would have you believe, and let the techies and scientists develope the next generation of electric, wind, natural gas, hydrogen and solar power as we keep going on what our own country can easily provide us for as long as it takes to perfect the next generation of fuels and energy sources....... THAT IS THE ANSWER...!!!

Don't listen to the lib's and the enviro-wacko's, unless you want to say bye-bye to your life styles and way of life, they want you all to be living in mud huts and walking to work in twine scandels...........

We need MORE OIL, WE NEED IT NOW, and we need to STOP these politicians and environmental activists from allowing our society and lives to MOVE FORWARD, INSTEAD OF BACKWARDS..! WHICH IS WHAT OBAMA, PALOSI and REED AND THE OTHER LIB"S and ENVIRO-WACKO'S WANT FOR THIS COUNTRY..!!!!

I don't want that for me and my family and friends...... I think T. Boone Pickens is right on with his ideas..... It beats a tire inflation guage hands down, and is a real answer...........

You need to read/listen to his plan. It's about 8 minutes into his Senate testimony.

Can't we just produce more oil?

World oil production peaked in 2005. Despite growing demand and an unprecedented increase in prices, oil production has fallen over the last three years. Oil is getting more expensive to produce, harder to find and there just isn't enough of it to keep up with demand.

The simple truth is that cheap and easy oil is gone.

He's saying invest in wind now, to produce the electricity currently produced by natural gas, then use the freed up natural gas for transportation fuel, replacing gasoline demand, giving us time to develop better technology for transportation.

[Accountable]

He asks for a PTC, which I think is a Production Tax Credit. Now, as Quinn noted back in May, Pickens has already sunk a small fortune into wind technology. He's clearly looking for corporate welfare to boost his investment. My question is: is it worth it to the USA?

[Snidely Whiplash]

Originally Posted by Accountable

You need to read/listen to his plan. It's about 8 minutes into his Senate testimony.

Can't we just produce more oil?

The simple truth is that cheap and easy oil is gone.

He's saying invest in wind now, to produce the electricity currently produced by natural gas, then use the freed up natural gas for transportation fuel, replacing gasoline demand, giving us time to develop better technology for transportation.

I like wind...... Wind is good..... I like solar too.... We spent 6 years travelling in an RV full time, with solar cells on the roof, and inverters and batteries to make us self sufficient.... So I know something about this.... My first hand experiences trying to live off the grid, and making our own energy from thousands and thousands of dollars in solar panels and electronics just to power a measly 32 ft. travel trailer were dismal at best.... Yes it worked most of the time, but the power only lasted a short time, it wasn't enough to run an A/C, and it initially cost a ton of money that we never got back in savings, no matter how hard we tried..... That is the state of some of these new renewable energy sources right now.... It will take many years for them to be worth while....

Natural gas is the answer to the gasoline dilema, it's cheap, and it burns clean... I want to get a conversion for our car, but can't find one.... And theres NO natural gas infistructure here, none at all....? It would take years to change, and as childishly stupid our senate and house is acting, acomplishing virtualy nothing and scoring a world record 9%aproval rating with us all, that idea seems distant at best.......... The environmentalists won't go for it though, and since they have the dem's in they're pocket in Washington, it will never happen till things change...

Cheap and easy oil isn't gone....????? Our entire society runs on oil.... Every farm that supplies food to your grocery store runs almost entirely on oil, and that is NOT going to change, there isn't that technology yet, and won't be for quite a few years....

So if we all want food in our shops and stores, and clothes to wear, and cars and tables and chairs and toasters and electronics and computers that are made from oil products, and transported by oil to where you live, and if you want a house that has heat and cooling and electricity when you flip a switch, YOU BETTER ALL GET TOGETHER AND FIND WAYS TO GET OIL, AND KEEP IT COMING AT A REASONABLE COST, or we'll all be taking a thousand year step back in our way of living.....

I don't think many people can even comprehend how much in our lives comes from oil.... Look around your houses, travel anywhere, buy anything, it all is made possible from oil..... Without oil our societies die, and we all starve and die......

Oil is an intricate and intimate part of all of our daily lives, from morning to dusk and every second in between, and WHATEVER IT TAKES, WE HAVE TO KEEP IT COMING, or it's the end for us.... There is NO alternative for years in the future... Yes there will be alternatives in time, but not now, not in 5 years, nor 10, nor 20....

It's crucial that we secure an oil supply right now..!!! Our very lives depend on it...!

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by Snidely Whiplash

I like wind...... Wind is good..... I like solar too.... We spent 6 years travelling in an RV full time, with solar cells on the roof, and inverters and batteries to make us self sufficient.... So I know something about this.... My first hand experiences trying to live off the grid, and making our own energy from thousands and thousands of dollars in solar panels and electronics just to power a measly 32 ft. travel trailer were dismal at best.... Yes it worked most of the time, but the power only lasted a short time, it wasn't enough to run an A/C, and it initially cost a ton of money that we never got back in savings, no matter how hard we tried..... That is the state of some of these new renewable energy sources right now.... It will take many years for them to be worth while....

Startup is too expensive so it kills demand. Demand's not going to increase until it becomes cheap enough. Prices won't come down without newer technology and volume sales, both of which depend on high demand.Somebody's going to have to speculate, and it doesn't have to be us. Keep your eye on Germany for solar.

Originally Posted by Snidely Whiplash

Natural gas is the answer to the gasoline dilema, it's cheap, and it burns clean... I want to get a conversion for our car, but can't find one.... And theres NO natural gas infistructure here, none at all....? It would take years to change, and as childishly stupid our senate and house is acting, acomplishing virtualy nothing and scoring a world record 9%aproval rating with us all, that idea seems distant at best.......... The environmentalists won't go for it though, and since they have the dem's in they're pocket in Washington, it will never happen till things change...

We used natural gas domestically in the Air Force. Filling up made a God-awful noise (shoving a gas into a pressurized tank, I guess) and it wasn't great on the highway. In-town driving was fine, though.

Originally Posted by Snidely Whiplash

Cheap and easy oil isn't gone....????? Our entire society runs on oil.... Every farm that supplies food to your grocery store runs almost entirely on oil, and that is NOT going to change, there isn't that technology yet, and won't be for quite a few years....

That's part of what I want to examine about this. Ol' T Boone is giving a sales pitch, which means shading the truth to paint the picture he wants us to see. How much of what he's saying is real and how much is smoke he's blowing up our collective skirt?

Originally Posted by Snidely Whiplash

So if we all want food in our shops and stores, and clothes to wear, and cars and tables and chairs and toasters and electronics and computers that are made from oil products, and transported by oil to where you live, and if you want a house that has heat and cooling and electricity when you flip a switch, YOU BETTER ALL GET TOGETHER AND FIND WAYS TO GET OIL, AND KEEP IT COMING AT A REASONABLE COST, or we'll all be taking a thousand year step back in our way of living.....

I don't think many people can even comprehend how much in our lives comes from oil.... Look around your houses, travel anywhere, buy anything, it all is made possible from oil..... Without oil our societies die, and we all starve and die......

Oil is an intricate and intimate part of all of our daily lives, from morning to dusk and every second in between, and WHATEVER IT TAKES, WE HAVE TO KEEP IT COMING, or it's the end for us.... There is NO alternative for years in the future... Yes there will be alternatives in time, but not now, not in 5 years, nor 10, nor 20....

It's crucial that we secure an oil supply right now..!!! Our very lives depend on it...!

Imagine how much cheaper all that stuff would be if we could replace gasoline. Is the Pickens plan the right first step? I'm intrigued, but not convinced.

[Accountable]

He was on Jim Lehrer last night. Here's the 9 minute segment.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/video/mo...11082008&seg=4

I couldn't find a transcript.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by Snidely Whiplash

We need MORE OIL, WE NEED IT NOW, and we need to STOP these politicians and environmental activists from allowing our society and lives to MOVE FORWARD, INSTEAD OF BACKWARDS..! WHICH IS WHAT OBAMA, PALOSI and REED AND THE OTHER LIB"S and ENVIRO-WACKO'S WANT FOR THIS COUNTRY..!!!!

Ditto head
Youre such an extremist. Take the family to the zoo for a day and try to get your blood pressure down.
Nothing is happening to the oil, market strategists and speculators drive the price up and down.
Even if we do drill its a decade before there are results. So take a Xanax and relax.
More Rush phrases I see.

You might as well get used to the idea of Obamamama in the White house, besides, it'll give you a reason to slam your fist down on the dinner table and scare the kids. Just dont choke on a chop bone.

[yaaarrrgg]

The biggest problem is consumption... a lot of the heaters, equipment, cars, light bulbs, etc are huge energy hogs. I'd estimate that 80% of consumption can be cut. This means fundamentally rethinking how we do things and upgrading our technology. For example, why install thousands of lights in a building, when sunroofs would provide most light instead? Why not build bicycle lanes so people can ride bikes without fear of being run over.

I don't have a problem with Picken's basic blueprint but it's only part of a solution. He of course is just in it to make money, by monopolizing the next generation of energy sources. He doesn't say much about consumption, because that means he'd sell less.

ETA: nuclear is *not* the way to go, unless we are talking about an experimental fusion plant.

[Bryn Mawr]

Originally Posted by yaaarrrgg

The biggest problem is consumption... a lot of the heaters, equipment, cars, light bulbs, etc are huge energy hogs. I'd estimate that 80% of consumption can be cut. This means fundamentally rethinking how we do things and upgrading our technology. For example, why install thousands of lights in a building, when sunroofs would provide most light instead? Why not build bicycle lanes so people can ride bikes without fear of being run over.

I don't have a problem with Picken's basic blueprint but it's only part of a solution. He of course is just in it to make money, by monopolizing the next generation of energy sources. He doesn't say much about consumption, because that means he'd sell less.

I think you're wildly optimistic putting avoidable waste at 80%. Remember that a large proportion of oil consumption is industrial - not only in power but as raw material.

Yes, we can cut down on lighting but light takes very little power.

Yes, we can build more bicycle lanes and after repaying the power costs of doing the work we might reduce short commuting (to do it to any significant extent we'd need far more than current style bike lanes) but to get anywhere near 80% we need to move all private travel onto public transport and all goods onto rail.

You also need to look at reducing heat loss and, more importantly, reuse of waste heat. Heating is power intensive so allowing heat to escape or, even worse, cooling an overhot building and throwing the heat away is almost criminal but, using current techynology, it still won't get you an 80% reduction in consumption.