I'll start this off...

[Tombstone]

Since this is a new topic and I'm a new member on this new board, what better way than for me to express some opinions?

I agree with President Bush's stance on pre-emptive strikes. Should we wait until the terrorists strike us again? I think not.

The thought of losing hundreds or thousands of American lives before we do anything is too much to bear.

What I want to see is some outrage from the U.S. Islamic groups. Where are they? Why are they not speaking out? Their silence is deafening.

If there is any group within the United State's borders that could yield information or pre-emptive counter-intelligence, it is the U.S. Islam and Muslim Communities.

Are they working with the authorities? Are they afraid of speaking out for fear of retribution?

Comments?



Tombstone

[xlt66]

Originally Posted by Tombstone

Since this is a new topic and I'm a new member on this new board, what better way than for me to express some opinions?

I agree with President Bush's stance on pre-emptive strikes. Should we wait until the terrorists strike us again? I think not.

Tombstone

Since they are terrorists by definition, they have ethically and morally opened up the door for their targeted *Victims to stand up and defend themselves. They openly profess that they will try to kill at least 4 million Americans. All Americans and Brits are fair game.

All I can say is, "thanks for the warning." At least President Bush has the cajones to stand up to these bullies and let them know that we may strike first.

[plazul]

Originally Posted by Tombstone

Since this is a new topic and I'm a new member on this new board, what better way than for me to express some opinions?

I agree with President Bush's stance on pre-emptive strikes. Should we wait until the terrorists strike us again? I think not.

The thought of losing hundreds or thousands of American lives before we do anything is too much to bear.

What I want to see is some outrage from the U.S. Islamic groups. Where are they? Why are they not speaking out? Their silence is deafening.

If there is any group within the United State's borders that could yield information or pre-emptive counter-intelligence, it is the U.S. Islam and Muslim Communities.

Are they working with the authorities? Are they afraid of speaking out for fear of retribution?

Comments?



Tombstone

We are not acting like a nation at war. We've spent billions creating a new terrorist threat in Iraq and Congress has just approved billions more but states and municipalities are woefully unprepared to deal with the aftermath a major terrorist attack. Most of what we've spent so far on Homeland Security has gone to developing a massive domestic surveillance capacity but Big Brother will probably not be able to prevent the next 911.

There might not be another 911 type incident. Most experts now think that al-Queda will go after soft targets such as malls, freeway traffic, water supplies, food supplies, and so on. Their objective is to terrorize and disrupt our economy and attacking home town America may cause Americans to be even more fearful than they were after 911.

At any rate, the color coded alerts are not being taken seriously by Americans and the war on terrorism will not be perceived as a real threat until people see their government making visible investments in public safety.

As far as preemptive strikes are concerned, American Special Forces, in cooperation with our allies, are quietly killing terrorists around the world practically every day. Millions of dollars in reward money has provided a strong incentive to would be informants and terrorist cells are getting extremely paranoid and are reportedly mistrustful of each other.

We should have focused on surgical strikes against terrorist installations instead of wasting precious defense dollars on a discredited war on WMD proliferation and state sponsored terrorism in Iraq.

[Warsai]

Right. A lot of the money being invested in Homeland Security and data monitoring programs like Tempest is just money being wasted. The terrorists can think of other ways to get into America and to coordinate attacks.

[plazul]

I live near the Canadian border and in spite of the hype about new scanning devices and other detection methods at check points I'm confident that I could smuggle (not that I want to!) a ton of high explosives across the border. It would be easier than doing it from Mexico that's for sure. I have a vacation home in Michoacan and DEA is crawling all over the place but Canada gets much less attention from all American law enforcement agencies. I've heard that al-Queda has a significant presence there and the country has a rapidly growing Muslim population (no bias intended).

This is not to say that we're totally dropping the ball with Canada and we may be doing a lot that's not seen but I sure haven't noticed it.

I would rather be inconvenienced at the border and elsewhere than have the government sifting though all of my private data. So by all means, let's put DHS money where it will do the most good.

[CVX]

Hi All,

Timeframe: Immediately following 9/11

Everyone (our "agencies) covered their arses by claiming: no intelligence! Congress jumped on this convenient motto. Let's legislate! Let's gather intelligence! Let's sit on our butts, author insane legislation that penalizes everyone in order to find the few. Let's do what we do best!

Problem: Nobody had the guts to do real surgical strikes. Clean 'em up. Mop 'em up. Do it in any country known to harbor terrorists. Sovereign nations don't like it? Tough.

And yeah, no comment on the border issues. I don't want to go there. I have no idea how to plug our huge borders up.

Originally Posted by plazul

I live near the Canadian border and in spite of the hype about new scanning devices and other detection methods at check points I'm confident that I could smuggle (not that I want to!) a ton of high explosives across the border. It would be easier than doing it from Mexico that's for sure. I have a vacation home in Michoacan and DEA is crawling all over the place but Canada get's much less attention from all American law enforcement agencies. I've heard that al-Queda has a significant presence there and the country has a rapidly growing Muslim population (no bias intended).

This is not to say that we're totally dropping the ball with Canada and we may be doing a lot that's not seen but I sure haven't noticed it.

I would rather be inconvenienced at the border and elsewhere than have the government sifting though all of my private data. So by all means, let's put DHS money where it will do the most good.

[Tombstone]

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses. Plazul, interesting that you mention that you are near the border. So am I, but in the Montana and Idaho area.

We just don't have the population issues that the East Coast has. In addition, Middle Eastern men driving down the highway would stick out like a sore thumb! The Canadians sure do!

Rush hour traffic is like 10 cars and 5 trucks per minute. It's the only place in the world that I know of that I can tell my kids to go out and play on the freeway without fear of getting hit. (That's a joke for all of you alarmed moms out there.)

Very cool about your place in Michoacan. I had no idea that there was a growing Muslim presence there. I should have assumed that since it appears that the Islamists really get a strong foothold in poor and uneducated countries.

Originally Posted by plazul

I live near the Canadian border and in spite of the hype about new scanning devices and other detection methods at check points I'm confident that I could smuggle (not that I want to!) a ton of high explosives across the border. It would be easier than doing it from Mexico that's for sure. I have a vacation home in Michoacan and DEA is crawling all over the place but Canada gets much less attention from all American law enforcement agencies. I've heard that al-Queda has a significant presence there and the country has a rapidly growing Muslim population (no bias intended).

This is not to say that we're totally dropping the ball with Canada and we may be doing a lot that's not seen but I sure haven't noticed it.

I would rather be inconvenienced at the border and elsewhere than have the government sifting though all of my private data. So by all means, let's put DHS money where it will do the most good.

[plazul]

Originally Posted by Tombstone

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful responses. Plazul, interesting that you mention that you are near the border. So am I, but in the Montana and Idaho area.

We just don't have the population issues that the East Coast has. In addition, Middle Eastern men driving down the highway would stick out like a sore thumb! The Canadians sure do!

Rush hour traffic is like 10 cars and 5 trucks per minute. It's the only place in the world that I know of that I can tell my kids to go out and play on the freeway without fear of getting hit. (That's a joke for all of you alarmed moms out there.)

Very cool about your place in Michoacan. I had no idea that there was a growing Muslim presence there. I should have assumed that since it appears that the Islamists really get a strong foothold in poor and uneducated countries.

Hah. You misunderstood and I thought the antecedent was clear. There's a growing Muslim population in *Canada*, not Michoacan. There isn't a muslim in the whole state and I can't imagine what the locals in my totally Catholic village would do if Muslims stared colonizing the place. They'd probably think it was the Anti-Christ's doing.

Idaho, huh? Great place to raise a family. I'll be going through Montana and Idaho via Glacier Park on my way up to Calgary in September. It's a fantastic drive.

Anybody interested in cheap ocean beach property should come to Michocan. You can't own the land but you can set up a fidecomisio (governmenty trust) and live on the land like you own it. Or, if you don't want to build, you can rent a cottage with air conditioning and maid service for a little over a thousand bucks a year. (But be sure to generously tip the help because they are very poor)

[Tombstone]

Phew! I was worried. I re-read your post and thought you were talking about Mexico.

That makes sense then.

Good information on Michocan. We have our own little slice of paradise right where we are. Many acres, many trees, great schools, great family values, people working hard and doing an honest days work to support their families.

Very much different than in L.A. and the Bay Area, California

Originally Posted by plazul

Hah. You misunderstood and I thought the antecedent was clear. There's a growing Muslim population in *Canada*, not Michoacan. There isn't a muslim in the whole state and I can't imagine what the locals in my totally Catholic village would do if Muslims stared colonizing the place. They'd probably think it was the Anti-Christ's doing.

Idaho, huh? Great place to raise a family. I'll be going through Montana and Idaho via Glacier Park on my way up to Calgary in September. It's a fantastic drive.

Anybody interested in cheap ocean beach property should come to Michocan. You can't own the land but you can set up a fidecomisio (governmenty trust) and live on the land like you own it. Or, if you don't want to build, you can rent a cottage with air conditioning and maid service for a little over a thousand bucks a year. (But be sure to generously tip the help because they are very poor)

[plazul]

Yes, Idaho is a world away from those places and you can still afford to buy some land and build your family a decent home. Jobs in much of Idaho are scarce though with a lot of areas being dependent on logging, trucking, and other rural occupations. You can make it if you want to though. If I were starting out I might go into the outdoor outfitting and survival business as there are many outdoorsmen, tourists, and survivalists there. Either that or telecommute as an engineer or some other profession that works well online.

Too bad about the City and LA. You're not much younger than me (I'm 51) so you remember when San Francisco was a real cosmopolitan town. Even the bums in the Tenderloin had class. My grandmother on my father's side was born and raised there and she had the memories, let me tell you.

I watched from my hillside home in Mill Valley (I rented from relatives and there were still dairy cattle near by) as 101 widened and the commute backed up for miles. I saw the Haight and the demise of free love. I watched the street people degenerate and turn dangerous. I saw the excess of the gay revolution before AIDS. And sadly, I saw people taxed out of their homes in Mill Valley in spite of Prop 13 which didn't help everybody.

I remember all the fruit orchards in the LA basin. They're mostly gone now replaced by urban sprawl and ugly townhomes. Some parts of LA were more dangerous, I think, in the Seventies. There were more murders. But today vast areas are like a war zone of gang activity. And the culture is cheap and plastic with everybody claiming to be "in the business." Yuk. My niece lives in Santa Monica and she can't wait to get out.

Tell your kids to count their blessings and warn them about running away to California.