1984

[AussiePam]

That's a very interesting absolute favourite, TenneseeGirl !!! I liked it very much too. Why is it so special for you? Or is that too personal a question?

[TenneseeGirl]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

That's a very interesting absolute favourite, TenneseeGirl !!! I liked it very much too. Why is it so special for you? Or is that too personal a question?

I really am interested in dystopian themes. The whole genre interests me but I think some of the central controlling mechanisms of 1984 are really things that I see happening in societies around the world today. I know that we are not communist like the concept was based off. However the exploitation of the working class by the people who control the companies and things like that is apparent. I think that while governments say they disagree with the exploitation of human labor they will profit from it and claim ignorance for as long as we allow them.

I think that the use of communications tools as a way to control the population of 1984 is something that is already happening today. In smaller less obvious ways then a giant screen that you know knows everything you do and talks to you. However agenda’s are set by the media today and I do not think that it is such a far stretch with the growth of communication before the TV will talk back to you. I think it will be a combination of 1984 and Fahrenheit 451.

I think government interference and control to the extent that Orwell takes it is inevitable. Especially in societies that sacrifice privacy and personal freedoms (double especially in the aspects of personal communication and transportation).

Also it is the first book that I remember eliciting an emotional reaction from me. I can still remember sitting on the hood of my friend’s truck when the bastages shot Winston. I threw the book across the parking lot and yelled some profanity about big brother. My friends all stared.

Mostly though... I think its ok to kill enemies, but there is something truly wrong when you kill someone who believes in your governmental protection and love with 100% faith. A society without a reform process, where punishment is absolute death, even after you have changed to the standards of that society… That’s wrong.

*sidenote: I am a little tired so if any of this just seems like gibberish ask and I can elaborate.*

[AussiePam]

I had a similar reaction when Winston was shot. And in fact that feeling has stayed with me in one sense.

You will of course remember the FarSide cartoon about God, the smite key and the falling piano.

There was a second cartoon showing two skeletal wretches crawling in the desert who finally see an oasis ahead. The waiting buzzards are about to be disappointed. Then and only then, the piano falls from the sky. That's Winston's fate.

As for nightmare worlds.. have you ever read any Anthony Burgess? I very much like The Wanting Seed. I wonder how prophetic that might be?

The Wanting Seed by Anthony Burgess

[Clodhopper]

I think one of the best tools we have to counter the sort of nightmare 1984 is on about, is the internet and forums like these....

...unless, of course, none of this is real and you are all just lines of programming that I have been fooled into believing are people. Scareeee!

[TenneseeGirl]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

I had a similar reaction when Winston was shot. And in fact that feeling has stayed with me in one sense.

You will of course remember the FarSide cartoon about God, the smite key and the falling piano.

There was a second cartoon showing two skeletal wretches crawling in the desert who finally see an oasis ahead. The waiting buzzards are about to be disappointed. Then and only then, the piano falls from the sky. That's Winston's fate.

As for nightmare worlds.. have you ever read any Anthony Burgess? I very much like The Wanting Seed. I wonder how prophetic that might be?

The Wanting Seed by Anthony Burgess

I have not read that. I will have to look it up. It seems that the series I am reading will never be finished.

Originally Posted by Clodhopper

I think one of the best tools we have to counter the sort of nightmare 1984 is on about, is the internet and forums like these....

...unless, of course, none of this is real and you are all just lines of programming that I have been fooled into believing are people. Scareeee!

The problem is that these can easily be lines of code. Also in societies like China people do not have access to things like these. They are treasonous

[mikeinie]

1984, Lord of the Flies and Animal Farm, all three brilliant books.

1984 in relation to today I see it hitting the point of media control. Control the masses through constant bombardment of images. Also the way the country had a terrible enemy they were at war with and everyone hated, then suddenly it would change and there would be a new enemy and the old one was now a friend.


Lord of the Flies: Survivor, The Apprentice, and other shows where it is about the social behaviors that capture the audiences.

Animal farm: ‘All animals are created equal… but some animals are more equal than others’ Still true today.

[TenneseeGirl]

Originally Posted by mikeinie

Animal farm: ‘All animals are created equal… but some animals are more equal than others’ Still true today.

Theres a short story by Kurt Vonnegut called Harrison Burgeron. Its about how the only way to make everyone equal is to literally make everyone equal. Bring everyone down to the lowest level. Since some people simply can not be elevated to the status of their peers in aspects of intelligence and beauty and strength: the only way to be truly equal is to make everyone ugly slow and weak.

Sad but I agree with it.

[AussiePam]

Originally Posted by TenneseeGirl

Theres a short story by Kurt Vonnegut called Harrison Burgeron. Its about how the only way to make everyone equal is to literally make everyone equal. Bring everyone down to the lowest level. Since some people simply can not be elevated to the status of their peers in aspects of intelligence and beauty and strength: the only way to be truly equal is to make everyone ugly slow and weak.

Sad but I agree with it.

I dare not get started on that lowest common denominator idea. In Australia we call it the tall poppy syndrome. Chop em all down.

There seems to be something basically politically incorrect about admitting that some people are beyond others in any way, unless it's sport which is fine - so we open the universities to all comers and ease any scholarly rigour which might inconvenience the less intellectually able. Smart we may not be, but at least it's egalitarian. The Force forbid we encourage elite thinkers or put a bunch of them together where they might somehow breed new ideas. GNASH.

I'd like to add 'Brave New World' to our book pile.
And Ira Levin's 'This Perfect Day'

I haven't read the Vonnegut short story. Will find it.

[TenneseeGirl]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

I dare not get started on that lowest common denominator idea. In Australia we call it the tall poppy syndrome. Chop em all down.

There seems to be something basically politically incorrect about admitting that some people are beyond others in any way, unless it's sport which is fine - so we open the universities to all comers and ease any scholarly rigour which might inconvenience the less intellectually able. Smart we may not be, but at least it's egalitarian. The Force forbid we encourage elite thinkers or put a bunch of them together where they might somehow breed new ideas. GNASH.

I'd like to add 'Brave New World' to our book pile.
And Ira Levin's 'This Perfect Day'

I haven't read the Vonnegut short story. Will find it.

I think that the Political Correctness has a lot to do with not being able to aknowledge the differences in people. It has gone way to far IMO. There was an article I read where the school for the blind was standing up and saying "No its ok we don't need to be called visually impared, we really are blind, and we are ok with it." Of course I will never be able to find that article again

I do love BNW though I havent read This Perfect Day.

Soma Holiday anyone?

[gmc]

It's an age old debate. Obviously people have different abilities in society bit whether one group or sector is worth more than another is a moot point-as soon as you accept one group is better and more entitled to more privileges in terms of education, health etc then you are on a slippery slope to starting and perpetuating a divided society. People who think they know what is best for society are usually wrong. We're all basically the same no matter what you do or who you are. all jock tamson's bairns' indeed.