Should British Cops be armed?

[oscar]

Originally Posted by gmc

We don't get this kind of thing either

BBC ON THIS DAY | 18 | 1964: Mods and Rockers jailed after seaside riots

course they had national service and borstal in those days so that was all right then. remember skinheads and punks and getting belted at school? or maybe you got caned which always seemed kind if kinky.

As Brighton is where i was born and raised, the sea-front was a no go zone on bank holidays. I was a punk but punks were more peacefull than the skinheads. The police coped then (just) and i don't believe we haver any more violence now than we did then.
The football violence was extreme compared to what it is now. Brighton and Hove Albion was one of the worst especially against Millwall or Portsmouth. The skinheads would go for the violence not the footy. Mind you, if you saw the way Brighton played, you'd get pretty violent as well. Again, the police dealt with it without tasar or guns but your right, we had Borstal and judges who sentenced to be-fit the crime and not under Blair's nanny state.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by oscar

As Brighton is where i was born and raised, the sea-front was a no go zone on bank holidays. I was a punk but punks were more peacefull than the skinheads. The police coped then (just) and i don't believe we haver any more violence now than we did then.
The football violence was extreme compared to what it is now. Brighton and Hove Albion was one of the worst especially against Millwall or Portsmouth. The skinheads would go for the violence not the footy. Mind you, if you saw the way Brighton played, you'd get pretty violent as well. Again, the police dealt with it without tasar or guns but your right, we had Borstal and judges who sentenced to be-fit the crime and not under Blair's nanny state.

National service and borstal did nothing to stop that level of violence that was the point I was making. I was actually being facetious, far from being some green and pleasant utopia we have lost because of the nanny state the level of violence when we had all these things people now want back was an awful lot higher than it is now. It's not stiff sentences, national service and borstal that stop crime. The whole thing is just not that simple.

[oscar]

Originally Posted by gmc

National service and borstal did nothing to stop that level of violence that was the point I was making. I was actually being facetious, far from being some green and pleasant utopia we have lost because of the nanny state the level of violence when we had all these things people now want back was an awful lot higher than it is now. It's not stiff sentences, national service and borstal that stop crime. The whole thing is just not that simple.

I think the police turned a blind eye to a lot of the gang related crime in the 60's and 70's with mods, rockers, etc.
Mr O and i were discussing this recently and we said that what we think today is that violence is often indiscriminant. I remember violence being very much gang related when i was young but now people get killed for standing at a bus stop.
I have actually witnessed myself, full scale battles against the police at footy matches and with skinhead gangs. I'd still say that i don't believe the police come under any more violence than they did then.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by oscar

I think the police turned a blind eye to a lot of the gang related crime in the 60's and 70's with mods, rockers, etc.
Mr O and i were discussing this recently and we said that what we think today is that violence is often indiscriminant. I remember violence being very much gang related when i was young but now people get killed for standing at a bus stop.
I have actually witnessed myself, full scale battles against the police at footy matches and with skinhead gangs. I'd still say that i don't believe the police come under any more violence than they did then.

It was also generally accepted that people would step outside the pub and settle their differences. or two teenagers would have a fight and that would be it. Domestic violence was also ignored as being a private affair-there isn't more now than here used to be it's just people won't accept it as being part of life the same way they used to.

[oscar]

Originally Posted by gmc

It was also generally accepted that people would step outside the pub and settle their differences. or two teenagers would have a fight and that would be it. Domestic violence was also ignored as being a private affair-there isn't more now than here used to be it's just people won't accept it as being part of life the same way they used to.

So, apart from terrorism, no need really for all our cops to be armed or have tasars?

Personally, i just feel that if a scroat is going to raid an off licence, he's more likely to go with a gun if he thinks the cops are armed even with tasar. There's less need for the scroats to arm them-selves knowing that cops are un-armed. Our country has an appalling record of gung ho cops and i can just see us ending up like America where having a gun is the norm to protect yourself from the criminals who all have guns.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by oscar

So, apart from terrorism, no need really for all our cops to be armed or have tasars?

Personally, i just feel that if a scroat is going to raid an off licence, he's more likely to go with a gun if he thinks the cops are armed even with tasar. There's less need for the scroats to arm them-selves knowing that cops are un-armed. Our country has an appalling record of gung ho cops and i can just see us ending up like America where having a gun is the norm to protect yourself from the criminals who all have guns.

I kind of like the original ethos that the police are there to uphold the law with the support of the populace rather than impose it by force.

[oscar]

Originally Posted by gmc

I kind of like the original ethos that the police are there to uphold the law with the support of the populace rather than impose it by force.

When you have some-one who has never been before the police before being arrested for confronting scroats in the act of criminal damage, and i am not the only case in Britain, just the one who got most media attention, that is alot to do with it.
I always remember being told that they were 'Civilians in Uniform'. the Specials were the best as they had no targets to chase. The police have gone from 'protecting the public' to an 'easy coller' for their targets however idiotic it is. I don't fully blame them because it comes from above. If a station is under-performing, the seniors will bring it down on the plods to perform.
The Tory's are pleadging that targets will be removed if they get in and the Shadow Home Secretary, Dominic grieve, is promising the public immunity from prosecution if they confront a crime in process. I'm not sure about that one, it could give the local looney licence to go round bashing who they like.
Something has to change whatever....... It can't go on like this and arming all police is not the answer. they need to win the trust and respect back from the public first. When i was on Radio Northampton recently, there was an elderly guy on there who had been burgled by the same scroats. The police couldn't get enough evidence to prosecute them because the CPS now tends to lean against water-tight convictions. The guy was at the end of his tether but told that if they came back for the 14th time and he went for them...he stood the chance of being nicked himself.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by oscar

When you have some-one who has never been before the police before being arrested for confronting scroats in the act of criminal damage, and i am not the only case in Britain, just the one who got most media attention, that is alot to do with it.
I always remember being told that they were 'Civilians in Uniform'. the Specials were the best as they had no targets to chase. The police have gone from 'protecting the public' to an 'easy coller' for their targets however idiotic it is. I don't fully blame them because it comes from above. If a station is under-performing, the seniors will bring it down on the plods to perform.
The Tory's are pleadging that targets will be removed if they get in and the Shadow Home Secretary, Dominic grieve, is promising the public immunity from prosecution if they confront a crime in process. I'm not sure about that one, it could give the local looney licence to go round bashing who they like.
Something has to change whatever....... It can't go on like this and arming all police is not the answer. they need to win the trust and respect back from the public first. When i was on Radio Northampton recently, there was an elderly guy on there who had been burgled by the same scroats. The police couldn't get enough evidence to prosecute them because the CPS now tends to lean against water-tight convictions. The guy was at the end of his tether but told that if they came back for the 14th time and he went for them...he stood the chance of being nicked himself.

Doesn't help that your mates in new labour think they should be more closely monitoring the police to hold them accountable. Classic goal displacement isn't it. The police aren't there to police but to fill in statistical returns to make the government look good on crime.

YouTube - Rolf Harris ::: The Laughing Policeman

[oscar]

Originally Posted by gmc

Doesn't help that your mates in new labour think they should be more closely monitoring the police to hold them accountable. Classic goal displacement isn't it. The police aren't there to police but to fill in statistical returns to make the government look good on crime.

YouTube - Rolf Harris ::: The Laughing Policeman

I have said before on another thread...... from all the people involved with my spot of bother and even all the people who wrote to me..... I believe that crime is the second biggest issue in this country and if GB doesn't address it, he could lose the election. People are sick to death of it.
I remember one night, there was about 40 youths on our war memorial and even throwing stones at passing cars. Several phoned the police and we were told there would be a car there shortly. After an hour, we were sick of waiting and went home. Two hours after that, two plods visited my house to tell me they had just been to the memorial and 'yes, the damage was disgusting'. I went into my usual derogatory tirade at them and they said that it wasn't their fault as all units were confined to the station doing paper work because the cells were full. I wouldn't mind if the cells were full of 'criminals' but i knew they just be the usual 'drunk and disorderlys' they pick up on a friday night in town for a quick coller.
If Cameron stands by his vow to end targets, i think it will get the Tory's a lot of votes.