Disappointed and Depressed Yet?

[QUINNSCOMMENTARY]

If you voted for Barack Obama expecting a change in Washington, more bi-partisanship and action in the short and long term best interest of all Americans, I suspect you are feeling a bit disappointed right about now, or you should be.

The President needs to realize that he is no longer on the campaign trail. His version of bi-partisanship and working together seems to be doing it my way. Of course, that is not new in Washington and certainly it is not unique to Democrats, but hey, we were promised change were we not?

Real change would have meant that both Democrat and Republicans would have worked jointly as equal partners to develop a stimulus plan that actually stimulated things within the next six months. Rather we have spending for spending sake and a convoluted perception of what spending will stimulate the economy and what spending is for social programs that while desirable in many cases, are not going to stimulate much. Focus guys, focus and stop trying to get all you want for your social agenda under the guise of stimulus.

About 92% of Americans are still employed, most people are not losing their home, most people are not in credit card debt up to stratospheric levels, so why are they not out there buying, because they are scared, they are confused and they don’t know who to believe and they surely do not understand the credit crisis or the banking debacle.

Enter our political leaders with words of encouragement and hope. Surely I jest. Rather than trying to build up confidence, our leaders to gain a short term advantage allowing them to push through hidden agenda or perhaps to provide cover for their possible failure give us this:

“We’re in an economic crisis as deep and as dire as any since the depression” “Our nation will sink into a crisis that at some point we may be unable to reverse” President Obama

“We will get close to the great depression.” Sen. Max Baucus

“Perched on the edge of a cliff” that without help will fall “off the side of a deep depression” Sen. Byron Dorgan

We are only a few steps away from spiraling down to a depression” The risk of doing nothing could lead to a great depression” Sen. Chuck Schumer

“Our economy is dark, darker, darkest almost” Rep Nancy Pelosi (what the hell does that mean anyway? Sounds like she is talking about chocolate)

Unable to reverse, unable to reverse, of course we can reverse it; we just take the top 10% earners in America and divide up all their life wealth accumulation and start over.

Note that in the spirit of bipartisianship I did not point out that all of the above quotes are from Democratic politicians.

[Galbally]

Or maybe for once they are giving it to you straight without the BS economically-correct nonsense they usually spout about the US economy.

Its like this, your Government is 11 trillion dollars in debt, while ongoing budget deficit is nearly a trillion a year, manufacturing and service jobs are falling off a cliff, the stock market has lost about 45 percent of its value, the financial system is completely broken.

Most retail US banks are starting to face serious insolvency issues, while the investment banks are basically wiped out, and house prices (on which all the recent madness was based [along with derivatized credit risk] are dropping in value (like a stone) as repossesions and arrears rise.

You live in one of the most heavily indebted soceities on earth, your earnings to savings ratio is negative because no one seems to save money any more, you consume an enormous amount of resources (that you have to pay other people for), your people are extraordinarily indebted both in terms of public and private debt with the main collateral being U.S. real estate and Government IOUs.

This is at a time when the entire world economy, (to whom your supposed to now make money selling goods and services to) is going into free-fall; meanwhile you now need to borrow about 3 trillion dollars from foreigners just to keep the economy alive, while also printing dollars at a rate of knots.

This is in a country where about 50 million people already live in serious poverty with no access to proper healthcare or basic public services.

How would you describe that situation?

[QUINNSCOMMENTARY]

Originally Posted by Galbally

Or maybe for once they are giving it to you straight without the BS economically-correct nonsense they usually spout about the US economy.

Its like this, your Government is 11 trillion dollars in debt, while ongoing budget deficit is nearly a trillion a year, manufacturing and service jobs are falling off a cliff, the stock market has lost about 45 percent of its value, the financial system is completely broken, most retail US banks are starting to face serious insolvency issues, while the investment banks are basically wiped out, and house prices (on which all the recent madness was based (along with derivatized credit risk) are dropping in value like a stone as repossesions and arrears rise.

You live in one of the most heavily indebted soceities on earth your earnings to savings ratio is negative because no one seems to save money any more, you consume an enormous amount of resources that you have to pay for somehow to other people, your people are extraordinarily indebted both in terms of public and private debt with the main collateral being U.S. real estate and Government IOUs.

This is at a time when the entire world economy, to whom your supposed to now make money selling goods and services to is going into free-fall; while meanwhile you now need to borrow about 3 trillion dollars from foreigners just to keep the economy alive, while also printing dollars at a rate of knots. This is in a country where about 50 million people already live in serious poverty with no access to proper healthcare or basic public services.

How would you describe that situation?

In the early 1980s inflation was in double digits hitting over 14% for several periods, interest rates were up near that level as well so it was very difficult to buy a home. Between the spring of 1980 and end of 1985 unemployment was never below 7.0% and hit 10.4% in 1983. That all sounds pretty bad as well but we made it through. Poverty, well poverty levels are increasing now, but in 2004 poverty in American was lower than it was in 1959. And poverty is relative, 40% of the people classified in poverty in America own a home and 53% have air conditioning in that home, even though it is worth only 50% of the average home.

There will always be poverty unfortunately and certainly we want to minimize it, but it appears to be a condition of life in all parts of the world and the reasons for it go beyond the state of the current economy.

You are right we are in a great deal of debt, way too much and yes, Americans did not save and spent way more than they could afford and in the process drove the economy for several years, into the ditch as it turns out. Now saving is climbing just when we need people to spend.

This is not the first or last financial or economic crisis and my point is that we need leaders to give people confidence so they will help drive us all out of this, not depress them for short term political gain which is what is happening.

We spend too much money we don't have as individuals and as a government and we are making it worse with the so-called stimulus package which contains more and more spending and more and more debt that is not focused on the immediate problem or its solution.

I truly fear for my children and my grandchildren who are going to be burdened with all this debt and its consequences.

[spot]

Originally Posted by QUINNSCOMMENTARY

I truly fear for my children and my grandchildren who are going to be burdened with all this debt and its consequences.

As Lincoln rather soberly reflected, "A house divided against itself cannot stand". It seems to me that whether you fight the policies of the Obama Administration or not the money's going to be spent. You need to decide whether to help dig the country out of the hole he found it in or whether instead to confound his politics and wreck his intentions regardless of how they might otherwise turn out. It is, of course, your own choice, but from where I sit I smell the charnel stench of party preference overriding any desire for the common good.

[Galbally]

Originally Posted by QUINNSCOMMENTARY

In the early 1980s inflation was in double digits hitting over 14% for several periods, interest rates were up near that level as well so it was very difficult to buy a home. Between the spring of 1980 and end of 1985 unemployment was never below 7.0% and hit 10.4% in 1983. That all sounds pretty bad as well but we made it through. Poverty, well poverty levels are increasing now, but in 2004 poverty in American was lower than it was in 1959. And poverty is relative, 40% of the people classified in poverty in America own a home and 53% have air conditioning in that home, even though it is worth only 50% of the average home.

There will always be poverty unfortunately and certainly we want to minimize it, but it appears to be a condition of life in all parts of the world and the reasons for it go beyond the state of the current economy.

You are right we are in a great deal of debt, way too much and yes, Americans did not save and spent way more than they could afford and in the process drove the economy for several years, into the ditch as it turns out. Now saving is climbing just when we need people to spend.

This is not the first or last financial or economic crisis and my point is that we need leaders to give people confidence so they will help drive us all out of this, not depress them for short term political gain which is what is happening.

We spend too much money we don't have as individuals and as a government and we are making it worse with the so-called stimulus package which contains more and more spending and more and more debt that is not focused on the immediate problem or its solution.

I truly fear for my children and my grandchildren who are going to be burdened with all this debt and its consequences.

By the way, in case you think I am getting at you, I'm not, we are in the same position and were equally as foolish. I want the stimulus package in the U.S. to work, for all of you guys, whether it will, or whether its the right idea, I simply have no idea.

I totally understand what your saying about debt, I agree, and I fear for the whole Western world to be honest, as we seem intent on chasing this tiger right over a cliff, I don't know I am not an economist, so I can't say what is to be done.

Most of our leaders over here and our financial people are turning out to be straw men, totally compromised by the past folly and greed of the last decade, I am starting to think that governments may well start falling when the scale of enron-like corruption across the Global financial system becomes apparent. There were revelations in Britain (and Ireland) today that are extraordinarily serious, and have the potential to cause very serious political consequences in my opinion.

At least you have a new President, who has many qualities, even if he is not to your taste, but he is not a dictator, he shares power with the Congress and the Senate, and so it seems hard to take and hard decisions without a lot of people throwing in their pet projects in order to get their little bit for their state or whatever; which might be acceptable in good times (though still wrong), but in the current situation its madness. Its like the guys on Wall Street, they don't seem to care about how serious the national situation is, they just want what they want.

Like Spot said, ultimately a house divided against itself cannot stand, and you don't have the luxury of any more of this ideological naval gazing, arguing with yourselves while the ship sinks.

Not just in the US, but in the Western World, we need to wake up quickly, something has to be done to restore people's faith in the economic system, in banks, and ultimately in governance, or else we are facing a situation even worse than the one we are in, which (lets face it), is already not very good.

[QUINNSCOMMENTARY]

Originally Posted by spot

As Lincoln rather soberly reflected, "A house divided against itself cannot stand". It seems to me that whether you fight the policies of the Obama Administration or not the money's going to be spent. You need to decide whether to help dig the country out of the hole he found it in or whether instead to confound his politics and wreck his intentions regardless of how they might otherwise turn out. It is, of course, your own choice, but from where I sit I smell the charnel stench of party preference overriding any desire for the common good.

You are kidding right? Supporting what he says is one thing, nobody can argue with that, but the problem is the politicians are not doing what they say.

[QUINNSCOMMENTARY]

Not just in the US, but in the Western World, we need to wake up quickly, something has to be done to restore people's faith in the economic system, in banks, and ultimately in governance, or else we are facing a situation even worse than the one we are in, which (lets face it), is already not very good.

I think that was my main point. Restore peoples faith and confidence should be the goal.

I don't think you can justify doing anything in the guise of stimulus and have it acceptable without consequences and that is where the difference is. Politicians are great at making the opposition appear as spoilers, I don't think that is the case.

I don't know about in europe, but the bankers here did not break the law, they may have been greedy and foolish in the risks they took and in the bundling of the absurd investment vehicles that were not understood, but the root cause still remains the average person who was also foolish and irresponsible and I don't see any way to deny that.

[oscar]

Originally Posted by Galbally

Or maybe for once they are giving it to you straight without the BS economically-correct nonsense they usually spout about the US economy.

Its like this, your Government is 11 trillion dollars in debt, while ongoing budget deficit is nearly a trillion a year, manufacturing and service jobs are falling off a cliff, the stock market has lost about 45 percent of its value, the financial system is completely broken.

Most retail US banks are starting to face serious insolvency issues, while the investment banks are basically wiped out, and house prices (on which all the recent madness was based [along with derivatized credit risk] are dropping in value (like a stone) as repossesions and arrears rise.

You live in one of the most heavily indebted soceities on earth, your earnings to savings ratio is negative because no one seems to save money any more, you consume an enormous amount of resources (that you have to pay other people for), your people are extraordinarily indebted both in terms of public and private debt with the main collateral being U.S. real estate and Government IOUs.

This is at a time when the entire world economy, (to whom your supposed to now make money selling goods and services to) is going into free-fall; meanwhile you now need to borrow about 3 trillion dollars from foreigners just to keep the economy alive, while also printing dollars at a rate of knots.

This is in a country where about 50 million people already live in serious poverty with no access to proper healthcare or basic public services.

How would you describe that situation?

I've never been so happy............ Gordon Brown is my Prime Minister.

YouTube - Flash Gordon Brown.wmv

[spot]

Originally Posted by QUINNSCOMMENTARY

You are kidding right? Supporting what he says is one thing, nobody can argue with that, but the problem is the politicians are not doing what they say.

Then stop them in their tracks if you think you're up to it. Any country in the world that deploys its armed forces abroad should go into economic meltdown rather than continue on their destructive path. The more you fight the Obama Administration the better as far as I'm concerned. Pull down the entire temple, Samson.

This came out a couple of days ago from the Bank of England. I'd just like to interpret it for you because it has a weasel-worded scale, it's a differential graph rather than a raw graph.





Even going by the optimistic red band that's only going to get GDP back to the early 2008 peak value by mid-2011. As you can see, the more pessimistic lower pink band won't achieve that for the entire duration of the graph.

The US Federal Statistics office Fedstats - FedStats - makes no effort that I can see to track a count of people out of work, long-term out of work, length of unemployment, homeless, average income by quarter, none of the figures we'd need to actually test the pulse of this catastrophe in the making. Nobody else has the resources and the government lacks the will. Just like "we don't do bodycounts" this is going to be another let's-pretend disaster.

I note that President Obama has now been in office for three weeks and two days.

[Galbally]

I am starting to come to the conclusion that there is no systematic way to restore the system as it currently stands.

Spot said that global capitalism died in 2007.

I think he is right.

The countries that will come out of this are the ones that abandon the neoliberal orthodoxies of the last 30 years as they are as dead as Marxism. My solution at this stage would be this.

Nationalize all banks, control the money supply, have a global baseline currency against which all are measured (perhaps even going back to the gold standard). Prepare your nation for the concept of subsistence living for a while, because that's where we seem to be headed. Start directly controlling the money and credit supply to small business and mortgage holders.

Develop a new system that provides for sustainable economics with zero growth in consumption and static inflation levels, you get your gain and wealth from learning to do more with less, because we will have less of everything in future, and most importantly do everything to maintain the political and social cohesiveness of your society because your going to need it for the coning years. The countries that don't do this, may face collapse and revolution. If you think I am kidding, I assure you I am not.

Our Capitalist system has collpased, its now inescapable, we need to simply survive the collapse, and then come up with something new, quickly, forget the banks as private enterprises, either let them go to the wall commercially and set up state banks, or nationalize them and do the same thing essentially, they are all finished.