I remembered then.Originally Posted by oscar
Doesn't alter anything else I said.
The British are soooooo bloody honest and upright and fair and such like, they not only want to be correct they want to be seen to be correct.
I believe if we really wanted him gone, we would find a way of doing it..............quietly
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
OK. Let's try this to see if you can get the point. Let's say the tories decide to ban the BNP and imprison Nick Griffin. The supreme court does the government's bidding so that line of appeal doesn't work. But oh goody he can appeal to the European court of human rights isn't that a good thing? No he can't because britain is no longer a signatory to declaration and doesn't recognise their jurisdiction.
That is the whole point of the European court of human rights you can appeal to them if you are being persecuted by the british government or being victimised by discriminatory laws.The final right of appeal would be to the British Supreme Court, rather than Strasbourg pr have you failed to grasp that?
That was one of the eight cases we lost out of the 955 that were accepted by the courtAbu Qatada appealed time and time again right to the Grand Chamber of the European court of Human Rights to avoid deportation to stand trial In Jordon.
When Theresa May lost after fighting tooth and nail, she vowed that she would do whatever It took to rid Britain of him.....
Remember now ?
BBC News - Abu Qatada: Home Secretary wins permission for appeal
Don't tell me you think evidence obtained under torture should be used to convict someone? A lot of priests preach hatred not just muslim ones we should be consistent and shut them all up.Last month the Special Immigration Appeals Commission ruled it was not satisfied the preacher would be tried fairly in Jordan because the case could include evidence obtained by torturing his former co-defendants. The use of such evidence is banned under British and European law.
In January, the European Court of Human Rights ruled the preacher could not be deported until Jordan gave an assurance that torture tainted evidence would not feature at his trial.
posted by anne boelyn
No I wasn't since I've never heard of him. I was speaking of you as an american - your president now has the power to order your arrest and detention without standing trial. Perhaps you thought it didn't matter since it applied only to foreigners but now you too are subject to arrest and detention without trial. Who do you appeal to for your release?"She's not. Let me put it this way - your president has been given the power to arrest american citizens and hold them without trial. Maybe you were one of those who thought it didn't matter when it was foreigners but now it's americans as well. That's the problem with a supreme court appointed by politicians they pack the bench to suit. With us even with that power the European courts are a place we could appeal to AGAINST our government."
Hope you're not speaking of someone like Anwar al-Awlaki. He got what he richly deserved.
We have the european court of human rights, at least at the moment, Teresa May wants to repeal the human rights act because and withdraw as a signatory to the convention of human rights because it is preventing her doing what she likes.
"No I wasn't since I've never heard of him. I was speaking of you as an american - your president now has the power to order your arrest and detention without standing trial. Perhaps you thought it didn't matter since it applied only to foreigners but now you too are subject to arrest and detention without trial. Who do you appeal to for your release? "
Some might say the 2nd Amendment. Where's Abbie Hoffman when we really need him?
eta--Living through Vietnam, I always assumed my government could do that to me, or anyone, or worse. This is not a surprise for me, more surprised that it is so open. That's what happens when society becomes complacent & doesn't give a you-know-what.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit."
Abbie Hoffman
Read more at Abbie Hoffman Quotes - BrainyQuote
Now I'm feeling ignorant I've never heard of him.
Did a google search he's an obscure american radical it seems
Just kidding. I'm british so naturally I tend to know more about what was going on in the UK and europe at the time. I can never quite understand american left wing l politics, they seem very similar on the face of it but it's like you're not allowed to call them left wing. Oscar is a fascist something about which she can be quite open about. She's deluded and a daily mail reader but there may be hope.
Abbie is not/was not obscure. He had the soundest mind in the sixties. He was a great man & I urge you to read all you can about him. His own writings, i.e. Steal This Book (which everyone Did!), etc. are hard to lay hands on now (hopefully I'm wrong, I haven't checked for myself, but heard) & he was also the main member of the Chicago 8 (later known as the Chicago 7) which was the result of those fun times in Chicago at the Democratic Convention in 1968. I know, a long long time ago.
The term "left" here is anathema now. Changed & watered down to "progressive". I swear, there is more conformity here in the States NOW than in the 1950's. I've never seen anything like it.
But Abbie & I knew one thing---the best way to end the Revolution is for everyone to join it. That is part of what happened here.
Since we're presently all so "hip" whether we want to be or not, you might find some things he said are outdated, but an adventure with Abbie is worth it & was a great ride for the short time it lasted.
OK I was being ever so slightly facetious. I'm not an american remember a lot of your political writers are simply not known to me. I admit to a certain prejudice - an american viewpoint is not necessarily something I can relate to very well especially when it comes to your constitution and the reverence with which it is viewed. It's one of the reasons I like this forum it is to be informed I will have a look at abbie since ou have tweaked my curiosity.
The left here is pretty emasculated as well. Ironically they won most of the arguments and changed society but rather lost their way in the process turning in to a kind of political mafia that destroyed itself. New labour is a thatcher creation that would depress many of the old time socialists. I was lucky enough to know some of the those who were at the real grass roots.
Trouble with revolution is when it succeeds you have to start all over again to stop those who would take away all that is gained. That sounds profound haven't a clue what I meanRevolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit."
Abbie Hoffman
For those who are wondering why we might need a court to appeal against the actions of our government.
Sorry seems to be the hardest word: Why Abdel Hakim Belhaj was never going to get an apology | Charley Utton | Independent Editor's choice Blogs
No offence but only a complete idiot entirely trusts any government to always respect the human of it's citizens. The point of the european court is top give you somewhere to appeal to. Citing the odd case where you are not happy with the decision really doesn't change that. All the parties in the UK have shown themselves capable of the most appalling deceit and cover ups to suit their, usually short term, ends. They're doing it in syria again by supporting the rebels it wasn't that long ago when assad was one of our favourite allies and yet again we are about to create a fundamentalist Islamic state in the middle east.
Why?
I really cannot understand why we are supporting and, soon to be, arming Al Quaeda in their attempt to gain control over yet another ME country!
What would you do if you knew your country was about to be taken over by religious fundamentalists? Look at what is happening in egypt where the muslim brotherhood are trying to exert control maybe the forces for freedom are strong enough to keep them in check.
I can't understand it either why we are we getting involved in the first place you'd think they would have learned their lesson and just keep out of it. The daft thing is we are so busy cutting our armed forces we soon won't be able to anything anyway.
But do we really need the European Court of Appeal? Seriously ?
Anyone In this country has the right of appeal right up to the High Court. You are trying to make it sound as If Innocent British Citizens will be locked up without right to fair trial by Jury and a fair appeal.... well that's usually the case....In my case, I Initially elected to be tried by the Magistrates as Instructed by my lawyer only to find come my trial, the Magistrates dismissed and a County Judge brought In because they were so frightened of my lawyer..The Irony being the sympathy the Judge showed me In his full summing up when he banged on for about 20 minutes... I have to say the Judge was also most helpful at a later date when CID Investigated my arresting officer which was surprising at the time so I can' t complain.
I digress .... Governments have created the beast.... They allowed mass Immigration without checks which allowed the odd terror suspect In. Governments also took us Into the EU which then allowed those terror suspects to avoid deportation by the EU over-ruling Uk Judges under the 'Right to a family life ' article of the human rights act....
You can't have both because any country should have the right to deport any person they feel Is a serious threat to National Security as Is Abu Qatada....
Judges ordered to end 'right to family life' farce - Telegraph
I learnt a valuable lesson from my dog. To kick some grass over the crap In life, walk away and move on.
Avatar pic Is " SPRINTER SACRE "
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