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Thread: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

  1. #21
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    Re: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

    posted by tude dog
    Here is the problem. We went from the Supreme Court to issues such a Planned Parenthood.

    The Supreme Court cannot shut down Planned Parenthood. You are confusing a political question as to many taxpayers object to paying for the killing of unborn babies by Planned Parenthood. That is a political question.
    My understanding is planned parenthood also deal with family planning, providing the contraceptive pill,health advice and the like allowing women to avoid getting pregnant in the first place prevents unplanned pregnancies and abortions to stop access to family planning. The religious objection to the contraceptive pill is based on te beleif that life begins at conception and preventing it using the pill is equivalent to abortion at least and interferes with god's will that's certainly the catholic churches position and some of the fundamentalist protestant chirches. It's a belief that does a great deal of harm as religious oganisations are making the decision not just for their followers but for everybody. They also view the sole purpose sex is to procreate and outside of marriage is a mortal sin. We have the same debates over here usually it's the bible thumping protestants doing the shouting.

    Abortion is a last resort often caused by ignorance or being unable to access contraceptives if you want to cut tenage pregnancy teach sex education in schools. That's someone imposing their religious belief on others taking away the rights of women to choose when they become pregnant. Dress it up any way you like that's all it is religious oppression.

    posted by tude dog
    I don't know where you came up with that.

    She refused to do her job and got canned.
    Her job was to advise the president if he is doing something illegal or unconstitutional not act as mouth piece for a politician you're right she did her job and got canned for standing up to him.

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    Re: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Statements are either axioms - something which has to be accepted as a given fact and cannot be demonstrated - or it's a derived truth and dependent on axioms. Every system of logic is based on previously agreed axiomatic definitions of fact. He's laying out his axioms. He has to before he can derive anything. The point of laying out your definitions is that if anyone then disagrees with an axiom, they know in advance they'll have no basis for accepting the derivations. You can then either walk away or negotiate what's axiomatic and start deriving from that new standpoint.

    I could, for example, ask for the axioms to be changed to:

    1. all citizens are intrinsically valuable

    2. the intentional killing of citizens is always wrong

    3. human life exists when that life can probably be self-sustained for at least four weeks.

    I could then make derived law:

    a) abortion of citizens after 20 weeks is a crime

    b) killing terminally ill citizens within the last month of respite is not a crime

    c) non-citizens can be legally killed

    so deciding what's an axiomatic truth in a legal system is essential. That's what Gorsuch is doing in the passage you quoted. I presume he has abstracted those axioms from Constitutional law and can demonstrate that they're an accurate precis.

    My example axioms, for instance, would allow gun-owning citizens to eliminate the alleged problem of undocumented residents and tourists very quickly at no cost to the government, I ended the death penalty and allowed involuntary euthanasia of terminally ill patients, which brings up the other area: ethical axioms.
    "all human beings are intrinsically valuable and the intentional taking of human life by private persons is always wrong."
    The axiom emphasized above looks to me to be a potential problem for gun-rights and should raise some eyebrows.

    Taken literally, the right to bear arms is nothing more than a hollow promise in the mind of Gorsuch, meaning, you have the right to them, but you better not kill anyone with the gun unless you're a member of law enforcement or the military. This could, of course, fly in the face of the originalism and textualism raised earlier.

    Trump probably doesn't know any of this unless someone's read public information on Gorsuch to him since he himself doesn't read. I wonder if someone could create a pie chart that might reflect any of this information for The Donald to decipher.

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    Re: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    posted by tude dog


    My understanding is planned parenthood also deal with family planning,
    So what?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    providing the contraceptive pill,health advice and the like allowing women to avoid getting pregnant in the first place prevents unplanned pregnancies and abortions to stop access to family planning. The religious objection to the contraceptive pill is based on te beleif that life begins at conception and preventing it using the pill is equivalent to abortion at least and interferes with god's will that's certainly the catholic churches position and some of the fundamentalist protestant chirches. It's a belief that does a great deal of harm as religious oganisations are making the decision not just for their followers but for everybody. They also view the sole purpose sex is to procreate and outside of marriage is a mortal sin. We have the same debates over here usually it's the bible thumping protestants doing the shouting.

    Abortion is a last resort often caused by ignorance or being unable to access contraceptives if you want to cut tenage pregnancy teach sex education in schools. That's someone imposing their religious belief on others taking away the rights of women to choose when they become pregnant. Dress it up any way you like that's all it is religious oppression.
    I doubt anytime soon such a question will come before Neil Gorsuch, one of nine justices.
    "The judge who always likes the results he reaches is a bad judge.".

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    Re: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

    popsted by tude dog
    So what?
    it's being targeted for religious reasons by republicans.

    I doubt anytime soon such a question will come before Neil Gorsuch, one of nine justices.
    No looks like it will be dome by the back door.

    Could Trump overturn Supreme Court abortion case Roe v. Wade? How? - Business Insider

    While Trump once supported abortion, he has since reversed his position, saying in his first interview after winning the election that he wants to appoint "pro-life" judges with the goal of overturning Roe v. Wade. His highly conservative nominee to fill the vacant Supreme Court seat, Neil Gorsuch, is expected to try to carry out this mission.
    The gradual erosion of Roe v. Wade is a much more likely scenario for diminishing abortion access, according to Cohen, because Chief Justice John Roberts often plays the "long game." Roberts hasn't explicitly come out against Roe or abortion (as is tradition with justices), but he has said he respects the precedence of Roe yet supported abortion restrictions in Supreme Court cases while on the bench.
    It's awkward commenting on american politics. We have the same issues but it seems more genmerally accepted that the religious should keep out of politics they don't but the more extreme get laughed at. I se trump is also talking about allowing religious organisations to sponsor candidates - like america need sectarian warfare on it's treets.

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    Re: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    popsted by tude dog


    it's being targeted for religious reasons by republicans.
    That is a political matter. I don't see where it is a Constitutional matter.


    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    No looks like it will be dome by the back door.
    Planned Parenthood has no right to expect taxpayer money. Congress gives, Congress takes.

    Could Trump overturn Supreme Court abortion case Roe v. Wade? How? - Business Insider

    Without going to that link no president can overturn a Supreme Court decision. Only the Court could, but that is rare and I suspect after over 40 years the decision is unlikely to ever happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    It's awkward commenting on american politics. We have the same issues but it seems more genmerally accepted that the religious should keep out of politics they don't but the more extreme get laughed at. I se trump is also talking about allowing religious organisations to sponsor candidates - like america need sectarian warfare on it's treets.
    All people have the right, religious and none religious to be involved in the public square.

    What the Trumphole is talking about is Trump vows to ‘destroy’ law banning political activity by tax-exempt churches

    The T-boner doesn't realize such a law would allow ALL tax-exempt organizations to engage in political activity.

    When I give to a tax-exempt organization it isn't for a political cause.
    "The judge who always likes the results he reaches is a bad judge.".

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    Re: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

    I find this not just interesting, but a positive for Gorsuch.

    Supreme Court nominee Gorsuch says Trump’s attacks on judiciary are ‘demoralizing’

    President Trump’s escalating attacks on the federal judiciary drew denunciation Wednesday from his Supreme Court nominee, Neil Gorsuch, who told a senator that the criticism was “disheartening” and “demoralizing” to independent federal courts.

    Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) said Gorsuch made the comments during their private meeting Wednesday, and the account was confirmed by Ron Bonjean, a member of the group guiding the judge through his confirmation process.

    Trump on Wednesday morning declared that an appeals court’s hearing Tuesday night regarding his controversial immigration executive order was “disgraceful,” and that judges were more concerned about politics than following the law.

    The remarks followed earlier tweets from Trump disparaging “the so-called judge” who issued a nationwide stop to his plan and saying the ruling “put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system.”

    Blumenthal said Gorsuch, whom Trump nominated to the Supreme Court just over a week ago, agreed with him that the president’s language was out of line.

    The contretemps added another layer to the roiling nature of Trump’s young presidency. Some historians wondered whether Supreme Court nominees had ever separated themselves in such a way from the president who nominated them; others tried to recall whether a president had ever given a nominee reason to do so.
    WASHINGTON POST
    "The judge who always likes the results he reaches is a bad judge.".

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    Re: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

    It will be interesting to see how that sits with Trump's oversized ego.

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    Re: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandrin View Post
    It will be interesting to see how that sits with Trump's oversized ego.
    Trump: "You're fired - Next!"

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    Re: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandrin View Post
    It will be interesting to see how that sits with Trump's oversized ego.
    Undo the nomination, really?

    That is his nominee and Trump can now go pound salt.
    "The judge who always likes the results he reaches is a bad judge.".

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    Re: Neil Gorsuch, Supreme Court nominee

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    posted by tude dog
    Planned Parenthood has no right to expect taxpayer money. Congress gives, Congress takes.
    That's one area we would disagree on imo a function of government is to provide for the common good i.e. healthcare and education. hwealth and education is fundamental to the success of a capitalist economy you need a healthy and well educated workforce for it to work. Just have a look at the educational standards of the most successful state economies. Ante natal care and free access to birth control is a right not a privilege and it's not something the rleigious should be able to prevent.

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