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Thread: That's a huge fire

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    That's a huge fire

    Gone midnight, too. 24 stories, Notting Hill and it is not a place I'd want to have been asleep in.

    Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London - BBC News

    I worked for a while on the CBS Records site not far round the corner from there, a long time ago. Not an elegant part of town.
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    Re: That's a huge fire

    Whatever went wrong with that building, there should be a public enquiry. No building should be able to do that. It would have been a disgrace in some tinpot South American banana republic, London is supposed to have better standards.

    If the number killed is less than a hundred I'll be astonished.

    The links from Grenfell Tower fire catastrophe are relevant. Three months ago that extensive blog said
    The Grenfell Action Group has a long history of raising concerns about the almost criminally lax manner in which the KCTMO treats fire safety issues and we are on record as stating that it is our belief that a serious and catastrophic incident will be the undoing of this mini mafia who pose as a bona fide organisation responsible for the smooth running of the RBKC’S social housing.


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    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
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    Re: That's a huge fire

    When I saw the way the fire had taken hold, I thought how?
    There has to be criminal neglect involved, it is shocking to think so many people were living in a high rise without a functioning sprinkler system working.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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    Re: That's a huge fire

    You'd think the contractors cannot possibly have used an inflammable cladding when they refurbished last year. On the other hand the outside looked like a torch soaked in paraffin by the time the BBC was filming it.

    I have found an article. It describes US safety practice with examples of how lesser nations fail, with photos.
    In other countries, particularly in developing countries where the emphasis has been on
    maximum economic growth and development, building code requirements related to fire safety
    are notably weaker. For construction of exterior building walls, many jurisdictions have very few
    fire safety restrictions at all, allowing designers and materials suppliers to dictate the
    construction materials and assembly methods for exterior building walls. Such countries have
    provided, and continue to provide, loss lessons for what can happen when combustible materials
    in exterior non-load bearing wall assemblies are not limited to proven, fire-tested assemblies.

    Building Exterior Wall Assembly Flammability: Have We Forgotten the Past 40 Years?



    The need for a working sprinkler system in those circumstances is emphasized several times. On the other hand the live newsfeed at the Guardian notes the following from "Michael Paramasivan, 37, a builder":
    11:25: [...] Paramasivan said the material on the outside of the building went up in flames rapidly. “It just went up like that,” he said, gesturing wildly. “There’s no fire alarms in the corridors, no sprinklers, nothing. There’s only smoke detectors in the flat and they didn’t go off.”



    The contractor, Rydon, put out a statement on their website which ends:
    Rydon completed a refurbishment of the building in the summer of 2016 for KCTMO (Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation) on behalf of the Council, which met all required building control, fire regulation and health & safety standards. We will cooperate with the relevant authorities and emergency services and fully support their enquiries into the causes of this fire at the appropriate time.

    Given the ongoing nature of the incident and the tragic events overnight, it would be inappropriate for us to speculate or comment further at this stage.

    http://www.rydon.co.uk/news/grenfell-tower
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    Re: That's a huge fire

    I vaguely remember a call to make fire sprinklers mandatory in new builds.
    My job involves a weekly test of fire alarms and sprinklers in a retail environment.
    Having tried to burn an old suite not very long ago found it impossible, the spread and the ferocity of this fire is unbelievable in 2017.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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    Re: That's a huge fire

    I jotted a few numbers on a scrap of paper, I reckon that building had 50 tons of styrofoam wrapped around it with air-gaps to stay dry, all of which went up in flames. I'll be interested to see the actual figure, but that guess is around 8 times as much weight of combustible material and a lot more calorific than fed the Kings Cross fire.
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    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Re: That's a huge fire

    The company that did the cladding have just been reported as saying they are unaware of any link between the fire and the cladding.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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    Re: That's a huge fire

    There's not been an investigation yet, so there's no link yet. Lightweight external insulation panels made up mostly of carbon and hydrogen, that's what.

    They admit they put cladding up, then?

    Ask whether it added thermal insulation to the building. Then ask how thick the panels were.
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    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Re: That's a huge fire

    It seems successive Housing Ministers having been kicking a review of Fire Safety regs down the road since 2013 which deals with exactly this sort of issue. Apparently all new builds over 30m high have to have sprinklers but they weren't forced to retrofit older buildings of which there are about 4,000 across the country.

    It must have been the cladding I would have thought having seen the pictures. Some of the experts were saying it has to be fire resistant but it clearly wasn't. Which means either the wrong stuff, faulty stuff, or badly fitted. Or any combination of the above.

    I have no idea how high the death toll will go. 100 seems very possible. I thought it would be many more than that at first but it seems at least some people did get down from all but the top 3 or 4 storeys. One of the terrible tragedies about this is that the advice normally is to stay put and let the Fire Brigade get on with putting the fire out, which works since the flats are all made from fire resistant materials which are designed to stop the fire spreading. But if something like the cladding going up bypasses that system, it means many died from following the official advice.
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    Re: That's a huge fire

    Register to remove this ad.
    Anyone with the words "Human Resources" or "spokesperson" in their job description is a trained inveterate deflector from truth, descended from a long line of unmarried antisocial liars and no doubt raising a loathsome brood of unrighteous children we would do well to ban from all forms of employment for life.

    The BBC reports that "the work also included the installation of new cladding - consisting of two aluminium sheets with a polyethylene core."

    Observe the attached graphic. The material described in the article is the skin exposed to daylight, signified in very dark brown.

    The bulkier stuff marked in yellow is the external thermal cladding and has nothing to do with the "two aluminium sheets with a polyethylene core". The essential question is what it was made of and how thick it was. My money's still on "lightweight external insulation panels made up mostly of carbon and hydrogen", for which the word Styrofoam is a pretty good approximation. The "two aluminium sheets with a polyethylene core" is intended to deceive. The word "consisting" is untrue, the word can at best be "including" and the sentence leaves out the prime inflammable component.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails That's a huge fire-cladding1.png  
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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