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Thread: Making a list and checking it twice

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    Re: Making a list and checking it twice

    I must confess that I have often wondered how things might have worked out differently if England had not kept Palestine from becoming a state in 1918 when all of the others in the Middle East were given that status.

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    Re: Making a list and checking it twice

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    I am fascinated with the story of Israel and the Palestinian people. From the start the whole project was doomed to failure.
    The Europeans never really expected the state of Israel to survive so long.
    They put the Zionists in a an unwinnable situation, the partitioning of the Palestine left them with an region that could not possibly be defended. The expectation was that the Arabs would wipe them out quickly and the "Jewish problem" would be dealt with once and for all.
    The Arab nations declared that any Palestinians who stayed and cooperated with the Israelis would be left abandoned and not welcome in any Arab/Muslim nation. So all the Palestinians in the new state left their homes and waited for the Arabs to wipe the interlopers off their land.
    Well, We all know how well THAT went.
    So, the Israelis survived the initial onslaught, and a few more after that one. The Palestinians were abandoned by their "Arab Brothers" and Israeli and Palestinian have no choice but to learn to live together.
    And yet we meddle in the process at every step.
    Do you have any documentation for that? From my reading it was more like they were pushed out by the likes or Irgun, the Stern Gang and Haganah with acts like the Deir Yassin massacre aimed specifically at terrorising the Arabs into leaving.

    I would, truly, be interested if you have as, like you, I'm fascinated by the causes of today's problems in the area.

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    Re: Making a list and checking it twice

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    Do you have any documentation for that? From my reading it was more like they were pushed out by the likes or Irgun, the Stern Gang and Haganah with acts like the Deir Yassin massacre aimed specifically at terrorising the Arabs into leaving.

    I would, truly, be interested if you have as, like you, I'm fascinated by the causes of today's problems in the area.
    I will dig through what I have. But it is a fair certainty that the majority of Arab Palestinians would not have simply fled the area because of terrorists threats.
    This article does cover many of the details, but does not specifically state what I wrote. That information came to me while taking part in discussions with Palestinian and Israeli students during college days, many years ago.

    I may have to make a trip to the library to find the supporting document
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers

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    Re: Making a list and checking it twice

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    I will dig through what I have. But it is a fair certainty that the majority of Arab Palestinians would not have simply fled the area because of terrorists threats.
    This article does cover many of the details, but does not specifically state what I wrote. That information came to me while taking part in discussions with Palestinian and Israeli students during college days, many years ago.

    I may have to make a trip to the library to find the supporting document
    Thanks, I would appreciate your taking the trouble.

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    Re: Making a list and checking it twice

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    Thanks, I would appreciate your taking the trouble.
    oops! I meant to include a link:
    History and overview of the Palestinian refugees
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers

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    Re: Making a list and checking it twice

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    oops! I meant to include a link:
    History and overview of the Palestinian refugees
    Interesting and there's a lot in here I need to follow up but it is a one sided view - for example, whilst there is mention of Haganah "leaning" on the Arab population and persuading them to leave there is no mention of the less polite activities of the Stern Gang and Irgun with the same aim. It does need to be balanced with an equivalent document from the Palestinian point of view.

    Even more interesting is the repeated insistence that the Palestinian Arabs were to be equal partners in the new state, a promise that was enshrined in the original constitution of Israel. A lot of the today's problems would not exist if they'd kept that promise.

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    Re: Making a list and checking it twice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    Interesting and there's a lot in here I need to follow up but it is a one sided view - for example, whilst there is mention of Haganah "leaning" on the Arab population and persuading them to leave there is no mention of the less polite activities of the Stern Gang and Irgun with the same aim. It does need to be balanced with an equivalent document from the Palestinian point of view.

    Even more interesting is the repeated insistence that the Palestinian Arabs were to be equal partners in the new state, a promise that was enshrined in the original constitution of Israel. A lot of the today's problems would not exist if they'd kept that promise.
    Almost everything we find written about any significant historical event will be slanted one way or another.

    I did see some mention of the Stern and Irgun in there.
    Yes, both sides promised one thing at the signing and both sides failed to take into account much of the reality. What I said in earlier post about the Arab League threatening Palestinians who remained and cooperated seems to be missing from most documents available, but several Palestinians who claimed to have been there told us of it. They also mentioned that things may have gone much more smoothly had the British Administration remained to assist in the transitions.

    But of course, now, it is necessary to put all of the past behind, and the Israeli and Arab residents of the area need to sort this out, and find a peaceful solution. The meddling from foreign interests must be minimized.
    I don't see the Christian Right cooperating on that front.
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers

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