Islamic extremism is spreading.

[Scrat]

So much for another "democracy". Seems like every time Russia pulls out of a place in this region things don't go so well. Most ethnic Russians left this place in droves over the last few weeks because they see the Islamic radicals coming to power.

We can't do anything about it, Russia could care less as I don't think there is much danger for her. Most of the active Russian army is on the southern borders and they can lock the Volga and Ural/southern Siberian regions down as tight as a snare drum.

I think this means a lot more power for Islamic extremists though in a worldly sense. When the Russians go home somebody fills the viod and it is not Americans.

My better half thinks this is yet another stupid move by Russia and the west, she makes a living off of the study of things like this so I tend to believe her word on it.

Russia just wants to sit and be happy behind her borders, America/Europe is overly ambitious and not capable of filling in the void that Russia is leaving behind.

What do you think?

Article

'Dozens dead' in Uzbekistan chaos

Uzbek troops have regained control of the eastern city of Andijan after a day of violence that left dozens dead and injured, reports say.
Uzbekistan's President Islam Karimov was said to have taken personal control of an operation to crush major protests in the city's main square.

Thousands gathered in central Andijan to call for better living conditions.

Nine died in early fighting, before troops opened fire on huge crowds and exchanged fire with armed protesters.

Tensions flared in Andijan on Thursday night when thousands of prisoners were freed from a city jail by a crowd angry at the imprisonment of 23 local men on charges of Islamic extremism.

Uzbek officials refused to negotiate with the protesters, who they branded as "rebels".

Chaos and violence

The violence prompted international concern. In the US, White House spokesman Scott McClellan called for both sides to show restraint, adding that hopes for a more democratic government should be pursued by peaceful means.

The European Union, meanwhile, criticised Uzbek leaders for not paying enough attention to human rights, the rule of law and relieving poverty.
Violence broke out after thousands gathered in Andijan's main square on Friday calling for "justice" and "freedom".

Armoured vehicles carrying Uzbek troops arrived in the square, where protesters had seized the mayor's office, and opened fire.

Men, women and children fled the square in panic as protesters occupying the mayor's office reportedly returned fire.

News of casualty figures was slow to emerge, but Uzbek officials did say that nine people died and at least 34 were injured in clashes early in the day.

Eyewitnesses in the square told how protesters lay flat on the ground as troops fired into the crowds. One spoke of "indiscriminate firing", and said she saw "bloody corpses" lying in a ditch.

Hospital officials told the BBC that dozens had died and many more were wounded throughout the day.

Doctors from neighbouring towns and cities were ordered into Andijan or placed on standby on Friday night, the Associated Press news agency reports.

Unhappy nation

President Karimov, an ally of both the US and Russia, reportedly flew to Andijan and took control of the operation in the city from a command position at a local airport.
Unconfirmed reports later said Mr Karimov had returned to the capital, Tashkent.

Mr Karimov has taken a tough line on security since a spate of suicide bombings last year, blamed on Islamic extremists.

But critics of Mr Karimov say his policies have heightened tensions among many poor Uzbeks.

Andijan is the barometer of feeling for a long, densely-populated valley called Ferghana with a long tradition of independent thought, and the authoritarian government in Tashkent has always eyed the valley with suspicion, says the BBC's Monica Whitlock, in Uzbekistan.

The government has locked up probably thousands of local young men, many of them prominent members of the community, accusing them of Islamic extremism.

The violence prompted neighbouring Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan to shut their borders with Uzbekistan. Protests in Kyrgyzstan in March resulted in the overthrow of its then President, Askar Akayev.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4544599.stm

[gmc]

posted by scrat

I think this means a lot more power for Islamic extremists though in a worldly sense. When the Russians go home somebody fills the viod and it is not Americans.

My better half thinks this is yet another stupid move by Russia and the west, she makes a living off of the study of things like this so I tend to believe her word on it.

Russia just wants to sit and be happy behind her borders, America/Europe is overly ambitious and not capable of filling in the void that Russia is leaving behind.

What do you think?

I think you need to let them sort it out for themselves and let things run their course. You can't call for freedom in countries like uzbekistan and then turn round and complain because it is the wrong kind of freedom. Nor can you give tacit support to oppressive regimes and help them suppress popular political movements because it suits your interests without that movement becoming more extreme and hostile to the west and Russia for interfering. Definitely the EEC and US should keep out of it. Opposing it just gives more credence to islamic extremists by making them heroes in a freedom struggle.

Popular rising in Ukraine good, popular rising in Uzbekistan bad. Ever so slightly hypocritical don't you think? The causes are the same.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4545707.stm

Although initially touted as the latest pro-democracy "coloured revolution" to hit the former Soviet Union, the uprising in Kyrgyzstan has done little to improve living conditions or the sense of hopelessness that pervades the region.

Torture 'systematic'

Uzbekistan remains a close ally of the US, with its airspace and military facilities made available for the ongoing operation in Afghanistan.

The US military presence may well have acquired a permanent character. President Bush has never publicly criticised Uzbekistan's denial of freedom to its citizens.

Meanwhile, the US State Department's website carries reports on the "systematic" use of torture by the Uzbek government, but also, somehow, also manages to call it "a stable and moderate force".

Russia's approach is not terribly different. Moscow has had a mixed relationship with Tashkent, but the line from Russian diplomats appears to be that secular rule at any cost is better than the threat from Islamists.

I can't think of anything better guaranteed to end up with a fundamentalist state than using force to suppress political protest.

[LottomagicZ4941]

If the extreemist would just take to drinking beer the world would be a better place

[john8pies]

Part of the problem - although one that it`s not "PC" to discuss - seems to be that whilst the developed countries are having a smaller birth-rate (even a negative one in , I think, Japan), those from the `developing` countries have more and more babies - ie, there are more and more of them and less and less of us. I generally agree with the 2 previous comments, though.

[Scrat]

I am in agreement with you gmc on everything you have said. What I fear is the spread of the extremists way of thinking and acting.

Russia is especially vulnerable, even with the manpower Russia has between the black sea and the Manchurian plain (over 300,000 men) things could get very nasty if bombs start going off in the Moscow Metro and Russians start getting killed on their way to work.

The hypocrisy is glaring on our part.

[Scrat]

Part of the problem - although one that it`s not "PC" to discuss - seems to be that whilst the developed countries are having a smaller birth-rate (even a negative one in , I think, Japan), those from the `developing` countries have more and more babies - ie, there are more and more of them and less and less of us. I generally agree with the 2 previous comments, though.

I don't think this has a lot to do with birthrates and all to do with the filling of voids and the crooks that come to power.

I have a friend who was born and raised in Tashkent, she and her family left for America in the late '90s because of the corruption that sprouted after Russia left. She went back in 2003 and was shocked at the poverty there. In all her years she had never seen the people living so poorly.

When you get to the point of "them" and "us" it is more a matter of the "haves" and "have nots". Terrorism breeds in that enviornment. When you have the very rich and the very poor it is much more than birthrates, its how people live.

[Scrat]

http://www.kashar.net/complete.asp?id=1105

Taliban responsible for Uzbek unrest, Says Russia

MOSCOW, May 15(Kashar News) Russia on Sunday said that pre-planned actions by regional extremists, including Afghanistan's Taliban, were behind the violence in Uzbekistan, ITAR-TASS reported.

"We are receiving disquieting information that everything that happened there was pre-planned," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was quoted as saying in Vienna.

"According to our information, the group that had prepared all this and tried to bring it to fruition included various representatives, including the Taliban," Lavrov said.

The bloodshed in Uzbekistan started early Friday, when weeks-long demonstrations over a trial of 23 local businessmen boiled over. Prosecutors had accused the men of belonging to an outlawed Islamic group, but their supporters said the charges were fabricated.

After armed backers of the accused stormed a local prison to free them, along with some 2,000 other prisoners, the military moved into the city that by then was gripped by mass anti-government protests.

[Scrat]

KABUL, MAY 16 (SANA): Some 300 Afghan Muslim clerics issued a joint statement Monday demanding Washington hand over the military interrogators alleged to have desecrated the Holy Quran at Guantanamo Bay.

The clerics, meeting in Faizabad, the capital of the northeastern province of Badakhshan, said that if the interrogators were not handed over in three days to an Islamic country for justice, they would call for a Jihad (holy struggle) against the United States, a Radio Free Europe said on Monday.

The statement is the latest sign that tensions continue to run high in Afghanistan over the alleged desecration. More than 10 people have been killed in anti-American protests over the past week that turned into violent clashes with police.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai has said in Kabul that anti-US forces were inciting the violence. "The enemies of Afghanistan are still active," Karzai said. "The enemies of our country are behind this violence. They do not want Afghanistan to have a strategic relationship with the international community."

He also said the protesters were against Afghanistan's partnership with "especially the United States" and "against the peace process" in Afghanistan in general. Karzai, who is a close US ally, also promised to press for justice if the alleged desecrations are proven to have taken place.

[Scrat]

KABUL, May 16 (SANA): President Hamid Karzai insisted the Kabul government will veto US military operations after a week of hugely destructive anti-American rioting left Afghan cities and towns in flames and hospitals overflowing with casualties.




The Afghan leader, installed with Washington's support in 2001 and often derided as an American puppet, seemed to be bowing to a growing mood of popular anger with American military tactics and uneasiness over how long bases will remain on Afghan soil.

He promised to correct "mistakes" made by US forces, especially intrusive searches of village homes by American troops in areas where the Taliban insurgency continues.

Searching homes for weapons is a highly contentious issue in the southern and eastern Pushtun tribal areas, especially when soldiers barge into womens' quarters, a deeply insulting act in tribal culture. The military has tried to soothe anger, training female soldiers to search.

Afghans also complain that innocent villagers are frequently arrested and taken to Guantanamo Bay or the interrogation centre north of Kabul at Bagram if they are unlucky enough to be in the vicinity of attacks on US soldiers or if they are the victim of faulty intelligence, an Independent report said on Monday.

Last year, Karzai appealed to the US military to rethink their tactics. But he is now demanding control of military activities. He said: "We will allow or not allow operations to be conducted."

The president also called for the return of hundreds of Afghan prisoners held at Guantanamo, another major friction point, and promised to raise the issue with President George Bush when the two leaders meet in Washington this month. But he stressed the importance of the relationship with America which has underpinned his government.

"We know that without the strategic partnership with America, Afghanistan would not make it as a sovereign, independent nation," Karzai said.

The last week has seen the worst street violence in Afghanistan since the fall of the Taliban. Disturbances began in the eastern city of Jalalabad and then spread to smaller cities in the east and north and the capital Kabul. Sixteen died, more than 100 were injured, and millions of dollars worth of damage was done to offices and equipment of Western aid agencies which were targeted by rioters.

The riots were set off by claims in a US magazine that a Quran was desecrated by being left on a toilet at Guantanamo. Karzai said the flames were fanned by "outside elements", usuall taken to refer to Pakistani intelligence.