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Thread: We are four nations, but at heart one people

  1. #11
    gmc
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    Re: We are four nations, but at heart one people

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    You talk of over 250 years ago as if it matters more than the recently bodged together European Common Market that you rate higher than the links between the UK countries ?......sort yourself out man.
    There are local cultural differences throughout England, the differences cross border are less on this island than across Europe.
    What matters is that scotland is a seperate nation in a union with england wales and ireland. Right now that unoin is very much to our detriment and we have government in westminster that represents a right wing culture and attitude that is almost alien we have not vot6ed for and completely ignores our opinions on anything and constantly tells us we don't actually matter until they are ****ting themselves at the prospect of our declaring independence and they tell lies and make false promises to con us in to not leaving an them don't understand that when the day after the result those promises are thrown out the window we might have a sense of injustice that even those who voted no share. Brexit is possibly the last straw and now theresa May iod making it clear she intends to undermine the devolution settlement by taking back control of devolved matters.

    Are you seriously suggestig that after independence the UK will put up tariff barriers against it's biggest trading partner outside of the eu? all the arguments that brextiteers use to kid themselves that the EU will still trade with the UK without those trade barriers equally apply to any UK/scotland split. Much of the trade with england is actually through trade going on to the EU although the actual figureres are carefully ignored. I just passed a spanish lorry which having delivered it's load of vegetable to the lidl depot was on it's way to the neighbouring distillery to pickup a load of whisky for spanish supermarkets just along the road from that is a scottish company selling medical equipment to the USA and the rest of the world the list goes on and on you really think we wouldn't be able to expand our trade with europe and the rest of the world on our own without the handicap of a westminster government getting in the way? You need us arguable it's more amnd more a question of do we need you.

    posted by clodhopper
    The elephant in the room I can't ignore when this matter comes up is the genuine, purely racist and deeply felt hatred of a sizeable minority of Scots for the English. All of us. It's different from gmc enjoying taking the mickey, it's visceral.
    How is that any different from the purely racist deeply felt hated of ukip supporters and the like for any kind of foreigners and those xenopphobic deniers of history that hark back to a non existent past when the rest of the world danced to a tune set by the british empire and inspired by the desire to put two fingers up to our biggest trading partners havinmg been taken in by the nonsense spouted by ukip and the daily mail? You all just voted for a fascist giovernment that wants to undo that socialist bane of their lives called the nhs and create a low wage tax haven on the arse end of europe. Do you really have to ask why scottish independence and another referendum is back on the table?

    Homelessness expected to rise further as Government scraps housing benefit for young people | The Independent

    you have a cold heart good luck with the tories and the years of auterity still to come.

  2. #12
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    Re: We are four nations, but at heart one people

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    The elephant in the room I can't ignore when this matter comes up is the genuine, purely racist and deeply felt hatred of a sizeable minority of Scots for the English. All of us. It's different from gmc enjoying taking the mickey, it's visceral.
    My English daughter and my two English but Scottish speaking grandchildren and another son live in Scotland, the son is just outside Glasgow in Greenock, and as far as I know they have had no trouble.
    I know that it is a problem, but there are strong feelings amongst football supporters and across religions, they are the nutty minority and should be watched but ignored much of the time.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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    Re: We are four nations, but at heart one people

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    What matters is that scotland is a seperate nation in a union with england wales and ireland. Right now that unoin is very much to our detriment and we have government in westminster that represents a right wing culture and attitude that is almost alien we have not vot6ed for and completely ignores our opinions on anything and constantly tells us we don't actually matter until they are ****ting themselves at the prospect of our declaring independence and they tell lies and make false promises to con us in to not leaving an them don't understand that when the day after the result those promises are thrown out the window we might have a sense of injustice that even those who voted no share. Brexit is possibly the last straw and now theresa May iod making it clear she intends to undermine the devolution settlement by taking back control of devolved matters.
    The union has been in place for centuries, there have been areas all around the country that are strong either Labour or Tory for years and years that could say the same sort of thing, in that their voice is unheard......that's our democracy for you.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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    Re: We are four nations, but at heart one people

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    That's what Theresa May says, anyway.

    PM Theresa May makes case for 'our precious Union' - BBC News

    Ms May is misinformed.

    What we are, Ms May, is two nations plus a principality and a province. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

    We are also three peoples. We are the English, the Scots and the Welsh. The proddy Ulstermen are belligerent rogues left over from Cromwell's genocidal plantation policy and the long-suffering papists are Irish, neither category being a British People.

    The sooner the British Isles become three independent sovereign nations the better, unless anyone thinks Welsh independence would be a good move too.

    I note in passing that, for the first time in my life, I do not know the marital status of the Prime Minister.
    Finally admitted on an international forum..... im almost impressed.

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    Re: We are four nations, but at heart one people

    How is that any different from the purely racist deeply felt hated of ukip supporters and the like for any kind of foreigners and those xenopphobic deniers of history that hark back to a non existent past when the rest of the world danced to a tune set by the british empire and inspired by the desire to put two fingers up to our biggest trading partners havinmg been taken in by the nonsense spouted by ukip and the daily mail? You all just voted for a fascist giovernment that wants to undo that socialist bane of their lives called the nhs and create a low wage tax haven on the arse end of europe. Do you really have to ask why scottish independence and another referendum is back on the table?

    Homelessness expected to rise further as Government scraps housing benefit for young people | The Independent

    you have a cold heart good luck with the tories and the years of auterity still to come.
    I agree with you and I voted Remain (and helped vote Goldsmith out of the Richmond Park constituency which was the only enjoyable thing in the whole sorry mess). I also said that my argument against Scots independence had been access to the EU and the argument has been nullified. It's possible you might find a way round Spain's opposition given brexit. Oh, and I'm starting to see more people talking about moving to Scotland if you go independent and stay in the EU (or join it in your own right having left the UK, which might just get round Spain since they aren't leaving the EU so it's a different situation and not so much of a precedent for the Basques and Catalans. Possibly.)

    My English daughter and my two English but Scottish speaking grandchildren and another son live in Scotland, the son is just outside Glasgow in Greenock, and as far as I know they have had no trouble.
    I know that it is a problem, but there are strong feelings amongst football supporters and across religions, they are the nutty minority and should be watched but ignored much of the time.
    Glad to hear it. My recent information came from an old acquaintance whose sister lives up there and she visits. Her view is that it's been getting worse the last few years. Either way, my point is it's there and it's real, just as real as the majority of Scots who don't lower themselves to that level. In the turmoil that would follow the various exits I think there'd be ample opportunity for hatred to spread and grow on all sides in all directions. Especially if there was considerable English migration North.

    The fractures within England show no sign of lessening. The opposite in fact, with all the angst of negotiations ahead and the bad feeling that will inevitably be created and expressed on forums across the internet.
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

  6. #16
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    Re: We are four nations, but at heart one people

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    The union has been in place for centuries, there have been areas all around the country that are strong either Labour or Tory for years and years that could say the same sort of thing, in that their voice is unheard......that's our democracy for you.
    You still miss the point that scotland is not just a region of england it's a seperate nation joined in a political union that is inceasingly to ouyr disadvantage. It's not democracy when we have policies imposed on us by a government we did not elect and do not support now we are being taken ouyt of the eu against our will most scots are bright enough to understanbd the impact it might have and even the fisherman and farmers who voted to leave have realised the prospect of policy being set by westminster is actually a far worse prospect.

    My English daughter and my two English but Scottish speaking grandchildren and another son live in Scotland, the son is just outside Glasgow in Greenock, and as far as I know they have had no trouble.
    I know that it is a problem, but there are strong feelings amongst football supporters and across religions, they are the nutty minority and should be watched but ignored much of the time.
    neither did my english wife or her english family nor do my three english neighbours.

    You need to stop reading the daily mail

  7. #17
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    Re: We are four nations, but at heart one people

    Well it's on.

    Nicola Sturgeon to seek second referendum on Scottish independence (From The National)

    “It is important that Scotland is able to exercise the right to choose our own future at a time when the options are clearer than they are now, but before it is too late to decide on our own path. By the time a choice comes to be made, there must be greater clarity about Brexit and its implications for us.

    “It is just as important that there is clarity about the implications of independence. And there will be.

    “We will be frank about the challenges we face and clear about the opportunities independence will give us to secure our relationship with Europe, build a stronger and more sustainable economy and create a fairer society.

    “If I ruled out a referendum, I would be deciding, completely unilaterally, that Scotland will follow the UK to a hard Brexit come-what-may, no matter how damaging to our economy and our society it turns out to be.

    “That should not be the decision of just one politician – not even the First Minister. It will be decided by the people of Scotland. It will be Scotland's choic
    e.”
    Or you can read the crap in the daily mail and daily telegraph.


    Recent surveys have suggested the result is on a knife edge, with some showing a 50-50 split.

    The bombshell announcement comes with parliament on the verge of passing legislation allowing Mrs May to trigger Article 50.
    Hardly a bombshell It was in the manifesto before an election that saw the snp sweep the board at the last general election leaving one tory mp, one labour and one libdem. Before the last referendum less than 30% supported independence now it's 50/50.

    Lets face it the main reason so many in england's political establishment are opposed to scottish independence is they know without us they are stuffed if northern ireland go as well which may also be on the cards thimgs should get interesting. I hope the tories in westminster are stupid enough to say no to a second referendum the collective up yours from the scots would be wonderful to behold.

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    Re: We are four nations, but at heart one people

    Why is there such a rise everywhere in the feeling of wanting independence ?
    I understand Theresa May has the final say whether there is another referendum or not, I don't see her easily agreeing pre brexit.
    Why do you insist on England's political establishment being 'stuffed' by an independent Scotland ?
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  9. #19
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    Re: We are four nations, but at heart one people

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    Why is there such a rise everywhere in the feeling of wanting independence ?
    I understand Theresa May has the final say whether there is another referendum or not, I don't see her easily agreeing pre brexit.
    Why do you insist on England's political establishment being 'stuffed' by an independent Scotland ?
    It's seems a reasonable assumption based on the amount of vitriol, misinformation and generally hostile press the subject gets whenever the matter comes up it's almost as if we should not have the tenerity to challenge the status quo. If you have rational case for us not leaving let's hear it but you don't hear it presumably because there isn't one especially in lighht of what is happening to uk democracy. I'm tired of hearing that the british people voted to leave the eu and opponents to brexit should just shut up. Without scotland england is in trouible we'll be OK with a scottish government proportionately elected that can really be held to account. You've got the tories.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwx2ce_AyOE

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    Re: We are four nations, but at heart one people

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    And you reply with a Australian racist, misogynist, drunk ? .................Allegedly.

    You said it yourself.......the British people voted.....Scotland is British, you put up with previous election results you didn't like, I have to put up with it all the time................what has changed ?
    If you feel the need to change the status quo, why not change it for your fellow Brits too ?
    Don't take it personally.......but it smells like a petulant teenager having a tantrum, leaving home every time there are differences in the home, slamming the door as you leave screaming "No body listens to me, nobody loves me"
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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