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Thread: Aspects of Empire, split from "Will President Trump run for a second term?"

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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    If your point is that America was an empire either in 1776 or in 1889 then I'm not surprised. You know it wasn't, I know it wasn't, but it's what you claimed at Will President Trump run for a second term?.
    Such a great empire we had.

    First, we pass a law to for self-government.

    Philippine Organic Act (1902)

    Then we pass a law for Philippine independence.

    Jones Law (Philippines)

    Long story short, we were a benevolent empire for 48 years.

    I would say that is a first in empire nation history.
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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    That's the state of American education Dawg...................we got the same BS here too......and we really had an empire........many of them still like us too.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    The Tudors had neither an Empire nor a dominant navy. We seem to agree on 1800 for naval dominance, however far back it might be underpinned.
    I never said they did - read the article, arguably henry set us on the way when he put so much emphasis in to developing the technology to make better cannon and ships- our naval dominance would never have happened without what he started. We had an edge because we didn't have tp keep large armies in the field more money for the navy. It's also an accident of history that we started industrialising first empires don't happen overnight.

    Now we're back to being a pimple off the shore of europe.

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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    I'm not quite sure where the argument about when Britannia ruled the waves came from or is going. Trafalgar sealed the deal for the next century and a bit. The previous century had been a case of mostly having dominance but suffering disastrous consequences when it was punctured - the loss of the American colonies was a direct result of loss of control of the sea and not even that much of it, just the American coastal waters.

    Generally, British trade could flow and French (and Dutch in the early years) mostly could not in time of war. So I suppose the imposition of blockade is as good an indication of gaining control of the sea as any and not just because of the tactical skills needed, but the logistic ability, financing and clerical work needed to keep a fleet fed, watered, repaired and munitioned at sea not to mention the industrial capacity ashore to make the cordage, blocks, cannon and so on. (N.A.M Rodgers is the man to read on the subject. I think his book is called A History of the Royal Navy but it's in a box at present and I can't check.)

    The two hundred years before that - say 1500 to 1700 - involved developments of ship design, command structure, financing, in metallurgy and huge failures from Buckingham in Spain to van Tromp sweeping the Thames clean of ships. Charles 2nd and Pepys can probably be called the founders of the modern Royal Navy in that it's with their interest and abilities pulling together the above that the fighting navy first became really distinct from the merchant navy.
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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    I'm not quite sure where the argument about when Britannia ruled the waves came from or is going.
    I've moved it here to keep the original thread on topic, you're the second person to have brought up the diversion.
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    Re: Aspects of Empire, split from "Will President Trump run for a second term?"

    What's this? A split thread at FG? It's been ages since anyone with such powers has injected so much decency into a threaded conversation. When was the last time? I wonder!

    FWIW, spot, excellent job on the work and title. Bravo!

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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by tude dog View Post
    It was in 1776 we declared independemce, 241 years ago.

    In 1787 we adopted our Constitution, 230 years ago.
    Well th final draft was proposed in 1787.
    It was 1788 that "we" ratified the Constitution of the United States of America. though it actually became effective Mar of 1789 so you're off by nearly two years, there.

    While some claimed we were an Empire after the Post Civil War expansion into the West, I doubt we could really claim Empire status until after we thrashed Spain in Teddy's War. And it was not really until we decided to join the fray in Europe a hundred years ago before we began to really throw our weight around on the global theatre.
    With the current Nero-esque buffoon at the helm, I fear our designs on Global Domination may quickly fade into the sunset.
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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    Well th final draft was proposed in 1787.
    It was 1788 that "we" ratified the Constitution of the United States of America. though it actually became effective Mar of 1789 so you're off by nearly two years, there.

    While some claimed we were an Empire after the Post Civil War expansion into the West, I doubt we could really claim Empire status until after we thrashed Spain in Teddy's War. And it was not really until we decided to join the fray in Europe a hundred years ago before we began to really throw our weight around on the global theatre.
    With the current Nero-esque buffoon at the helm, I fear our designs on Global Domination may quickly fade into the sunset.
    In Teddy's War, we certainly acted like an empire when we refused to allow the Cubans to have the democracy they begged for, out of fear that in a democracy they might choose not to be exploited by US companies, and gave them a dictatorship instead.

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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandrin View Post
    In Teddy's War, we certainly acted like an empire when we refused to allow the Cubans to have the democracy they begged for, out of fear that in a democracy they might choose not to be exploited by US companies, and gave them a dictatorship instead.
    After the war, in 1902 we turned government over to the residents and they attempted a republic. A number of elections were successful in producing some level of democracy for a while. Though we did play a heavy hand in their economy for quite a while.
    It was in 1952 that Batista took over the government after his election attempt failed that things really went to crap.
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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    After the war, in 1902 we turned government over to the residents and they attempted a republic. A number of elections were successful in producing some level of democracy for a while. Though we did play a heavy hand in their economy for quite a while.
    It was in 1952 that Batista took over the government after his election attempt failed that things really went to crap.
    Oops! Pardon my bad memory. You're right.

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