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Thread: Aspects of Empire, split from "Will President Trump run for a second term?"

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    Aspects of Empire, split from "Will President Trump run for a second term?"

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Not a word, no.

    He's doing what I wanted him to do. He's completely destroying any pretension that the US is a superpower. That's all President Trump is about. The USA is not the Roman Empire reborn, the USA is an embarrassing laughing stock of would-be bully-boys who can't take life in the real world. Yankee go home.
    The Roman Empire was a bunch of Bully Boys. The US, especially under Trump, is a bunch of Bully Boys. What makes you think it isn't the Roman Empire reborn?

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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    The Roman Empire lasted 1400 years, the American Empire might stagger toward 200 but I doubt it will get there. I expect to outlast it.
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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    The Roman Empire lasted 1400 years, the American Empire might stagger toward 200 but I doubt it will get there. I expect to outlast it.
    It was in 1776 we declared independemce, 241 years ago.

    In 1787 we adopted our Constitution, 230 years ago.
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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    The Roman Empire lasted 1400 years, the American Empire might stagger toward 200 but I doubt it will get there. I expect to outlast it.
    Where dop you get 1400 years from? Unless you hold to tge notion that the catholic church was a continuationm of it.

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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by tude dog View Post
    It was in 1776 we declared independemce, 241 years ago.

    In 1787 we adopted our Constitution, 230 years ago.
    You didn't run an Empire back when you founded your nation. Neither did the Romans when they founded their city.

    The Roman Empire started around 500 years later, somewhere near 200BCE, and for the first 160 years the Roman Empire was run as a Republic. After that it adopted an unelected Emperor.

    The American Empire dates from annexing the Philippines around 115 years ago, when the nation went gung-ho into acquiring foreign territory they could American-govern, American use and American tax without allowing any representation in American government. That's what we call an Empire. Your founding fathers disapproved of such antics which is why the American Empire does not date from 1776. By 1900 you'd collectively forgotten the principles on which your country was founded.

    Here's a simple test. Do you allow it to choose its own foreign policy? Do you allow its citizens representation in the government of the USA? If you hear two "no" answers, that's part of the American Empire. Ohio, no/yes, not part of the Empire. Malaysia, yes/no, not part of the Empire. You finally got pushed out of the Philippines, so that's not part of the Empire any longer.

    Ask the exiles of Diego Garcia whether they even have access to their homeland. Their entire country is a US Air Force base these days and the islanders are banned from setting foot on it.

    Guam, the United States Virgin Islands, the Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa and Puerto Rico? Where's the representation? Where's the independent foreign policy?

    I don't think Japan or South Korea have a choice in foreign policy either, but that might just be me. Haiti and Panama certainly don't. All four are obliged to host an unwelcome permanent US military occupation or to remember the invasions which happen if they fail to toe the line on command.

    Iraq quite definitely doesn't. If it did it would be solidly allied with Iran by the end of the week. Iran successfully threw out the American Imperialists in 1979 by popular insurrection, Iraq hasn't yet managed to.

    Would you like to pretend Afghanistan has an independent foreign policy?





    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    Where dop you get 1400 years from? Unless you hold to tge notion that the catholic church was a continuationm of it.
    The Roman Empire adopted multiple Emperors from around 200CE onward, and in 330CE the Emperor Constantine moved the seat of the Roman Empire to Constantinople. The Western Roman Empire fell in 410CE, the Eastern Roman Empire flourished for another thousand years, falling in 1453CE. That gives a continuous Roman Empire of 150 years under the Republic followed by 1500 years under the Emperors, which you may if you like call 1650 years. I called it 1400 because I wasn't doing mental arithmetic, I was writing a sentence.
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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    You didn't run an Empire back when you founded your nation. Neither did the Romans when they founded their city.
    Whatever that means?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    The Roman Empire started around 500 years later, somewhere near 200BCE, and for the first 160 years the Roman Empire was run as a Republic. After that it adopted an unelected Emperor.
    My calculator is blowing up.

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    The American Empire dates from annexing the Philippines
    HMM

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    around 115 years ago, when the nation went gung-ho into acquiring foreign territory they could American-govern, American use and American tax without allowing any representation in American government. That's what we call an Empire. Your founding fathers disapproved of such antics which is why the American Empire does not date from 1776. By 1900 you'd collectively forgotten the principles on which your country was founded.
    ZZZZ

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Here's a simple test.
    image upload freecertificity.com
    "The judge who always likes the results he reaches is a bad judge.".

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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    If you can't follow the points that's your problem. Your country did not begin as an Empire, okay? Neither did Rome. They became Empires when they started acquiring foreign territory. Look up "Empire" in a dictionary if you can't grasp that bit.
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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    I'm quite well aware the british empire was bigger but that was due due to our dominance at sea
    It was?

    We were certainly dominant at sea by, say, 1800, but not much before then I'd have thought. Dominant means we didn't have to keep fighting set-piece hundred-ship battles against the French. But by 1800 we already had the Empire. The rise of the Royal Navy was to protect trade generated by the Empire, I can't see that it was a cause. By 1800 we already owned Canada and Australia and India and all those slave-serviced plantations in the West Indies, we'd owned and already lost the American Colonies. The maritime aspect of the British Empire before the 19th century was mercantile. Every inch of conquest had been by land-based foot soldiers, a few overpaid upper-class officers on horseback, as many civil administrators as were needed and ambitious lower-class emigrants making their fortunes.
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    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    It was?

    We were certainly dominant at sea by, say, 1800, but not much before then I'd have thought. Dominant means we didn't have to keep fighting set-piece hundred-ship battles against the French. But by 1800 we already had the Empire. The rise of the Royal Navy was to protect trade generated by the Empire, I can't see that it was a cause. By 1800 we already owned Canada and Australia and India and all those slave-serviced plantations in the West Indies, we'd owned and already lost the American Colonies. The maritime aspect of the British Empire before the 19th century was mercantile. Every inch of conquest had been by land-based foot soldiers, a few overpaid upper-class officers on horseback, as many civil administrators as were needed and ambitious lower-class emigrants making their fortunes.
    Because we are an island we didn't have the expense of large standing armies and resources and research went in to the navy in particular developing metallurgy and making cannon - henry the eigth in particuar spend a lot of time working out the best way to cast iron cannon.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_navy

    The Navy yards were leaders in technical innovation, and the captains devised new tactics. Parker (1996) argues that the full-rigged ship was one of the greatest technological advances of the century and permanently transformed naval warfare. In 1573 English shipwrights introduced designs, first demonstrated in the Dreadnought, that allowed the ships to sail faster and maneuver better and permitted heavier guns.[4] Whereas before warships had tried to grapple with each other so that soldiers could board the enemy ship, now they stood off and fired broadsides that would sink the enemy vessel.[5] When Spain finally decided to invade and conquer England it was a fiasco. Superior English ships and seamanship foiled the invasion and led to the destruction of the Spanish Armada in 1588, marking the high point of Elizabeth's reign. Technically, the Armada failed because Spain's over-complex strategy required coordination between the invasion fleet and the Spanish army on shore. But the poor design of the Spanish cannons meant they were much slower in reloading in a close-range battle, allowing the English to take control. Spain and France still had stronger fleets, but England was catching up.[6]
    coal and iron ore we had in abundance outnumbered the concentration on building ships that stood off and outysailed and fought with cannon firing through ports in the side ended up giving us a tachnological edge. By 1800 we mass produced cannon and muskets of a consistent quality and gunpowder also of a consistent quality that gave british ships an edge. We had the empire but it wasn't accidental.

    Bit off topic though.

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    Re: Will President Trump run for a second term?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    We had the empire but it wasn't accidental.
    The Tudors had neither an Empire nor a dominant navy. We seem to agree on 1800 for naval dominance, however far back it might be underpinned.
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    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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