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Thread: What is Brexit going to mean?

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    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
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    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    I dread Brexit, its going to be a mess, I've yet to identify any benefit and yes it seems it will happen but one can hope...

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    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    I think what I'm dreading as a response would be how we will all be better off as a result of the wonderful trade deals we will get with the whole world after brexit. That's because all the evidence I can see says other countries are well aware we neeeeeed trade deals and will push for the best deal for them they can get. They would be negligent not to.

    Today I saw somewhere the South African Agriculture Minister saying he'd be delighted to make a deal - but would want extensive access to our agricultural sector. Do our farmers want to compete directly with South African farmers for market share? How many would survive? Not a huge number would be my guess. They'd be bought up by rich agri-corporations and intensively farmed...

    The really big concern I have is that this NOT a balls up. That much of this was planned and executed for the benefit of some very rich people who have effectively cut us out of the EU herd, and can now hunt us down and devour us, making a lot of money for them in the process but impoverishing millions of us. The Russian connection is very worrying, as are the connections to Trump supporting US "charities" like Cambridge Analytics. In short that this was not a balls up, the referendum was deliberately interfered with by outside forces for their own ends.

    Seen much about Putin and the Ukraine in the news? Or Syria? Brexit is great for him. So is Trump.

    There's no doubt that Cambridge Analytics offered its services and they were accepted. There's no doubt that Banks first confirmed then denied having a bot farm in Bristol working for brexit. The question is not, was there interference? The question is, how significant for the result was the interference? In a result as close as the referendum was, it would seem that almost any outside interference might have swung the result.
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    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    The ONLY thing we can be sure of is that the EU has said from the very start that any deal we get after we have left will NOT be as good as full membership.
    I can understand why the EU was formed. It's the same reason the United States was formed from the original colonies. Solidarity is economic and military strength. I'm not sure why Britain wanted to exit, other than (historically deserved) national pride. I guess it's similar to why Texas wants out of the U.S. Their economic interests aren't quite the same as the entire country's interests.

    I did find it fascinating, though, that the Brexit was voted almost exclusively by the rural, and the EU was voted almost exclusively by the urban voters of Britain... What does that say about the gap between the two?

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    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    The British don't do national pride very well.
    That is not to say we are not proud of who we are, just that we are too self assured to have to crow about it.......like the Americans (Sorry America)
    Generally over here the Union Jack is flown from public buildings on special days, and if seen on private homes it's considered crass, possibly racist.
    The Scottish English and Welsh flags are normally seen at international football matches.

    There is a rise in the closed border type nationalism seeping into the mainstream, based on fear of losing national or cultural identity and the economic benefits, jobs for our own etc. and that is behind Brexit in my opinion.
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    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    We are too self assured to have to crow about it.......like the Americans (Sorry America)
    Well, it's true. But we're still a young nation, technically speaking, and the young are always loud-mouthed about themselves.

    fear of losing national or cultural identity and the economic benefits, jobs for our own etc. and that is behind Brexit in my opinion.
    In a xenophobic way? I know that there are very large Muslim populations now in Britain. Is the Brexit an isolationist anti-immigrant reaction?

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    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    Well, it's true. But we're still a young nation, technically speaking, and the young are always loud-mouthed about themselves.

    In a xenophobic way? I know that there are very large Muslim populations now in Britain. Is the Brexit an isolationist anti-immigrant reaction?
    Muslims constitute about 5 or 6 percent of our population, but they are concentrated in certain areas,poor northern towns and such, and unlike the Europeans can be picked out due to dress and colour.

    There is bad feeling concerning EU nationals and their right to free travel to the UK, Polish builders are a national joke for a cheap jobs that undercut locals.
    They have free access to the NHS social housing and the benefit system at a time when they are all under stress due to a government choice of austerity. They work for less, and share crowded housing, and have shops dedicated to their needs, even supermarkets stock strangely labeled foodstuffs.

    So foreigners and Muslims are all lumped together, stealing our jobs, causing hold ups at hospitals, sending benefits home to their kids overseas........we would be so better off without them.....goes the argument.
    So yes certainly some xenophobia.
    Too many in far too fast a time scale has pushed the normally tolerant Brit too far.....so they say.
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    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    There is a considerable xenophobic not to mention straightforwardly racist element to brexit in my opinion. There has always been a small element of neo-Nazi types like the BNP or England First but it wasn't acceptable. What brexit seems to have done is empowered a lot of racists who formerly might have thought but wouldn't do, made them aware of eachother and made racism much easier, if not generally more acceptable. As a result, now they are more likely to do.

    The thing is that the EU by its very nature is multiracial and multicultural. That's anathema to racists so I think we can assume that almost every racist who voted, voted to Leave. The result is that although many brexiters are not racist there's an active core that is blatantly so and a much wider group who have suddenly found they can, and get away with it legally and socially. Similarly there's the far right element which overlaps largely with the racist one and also is never going to vote for a multiracial multinational EU. Then there are the ones who just believed and aren't racists, but seem happy enough to be with the racists and to stay with the racists.

    Much like your Trump voters really - down to the final element, which is where did the money come from? To what extent was Putin involved (our Electoral Commission is looking into where one at least of the major brexit donor's money came from, making unnecessary use of a front company...might be innocent if a bit incompetent - or it might not) and what are the international links? Doubt we'll ever fully know. We already know enough, if you put Trump and brexit together, to have your eyebrows raised somewhere near the top of your head aiming at Russia.

    The Russian people, I'm told by my Russian lodger, believe Putin was responsible for brexit and Trump and they are rather proud of it. My personal best current guess (nb subject to change at no notice at all) is that Trump was planned and brexit was opportunism.

    edit: That Farage went running off to Trump is well known and illustrates there were ties between the two camps at some level.
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    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    To be honest Clodhpper I think you are over thinking it and just a little paranoiac.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    So foreigners and Muslims are all lumped together, stealing our jobs, causing hold ups at hospitals, sending benefits home to their kids overseas........we would be so better off without them.....goes the argument.
    So yes certainly some xenophobia.
    Too many in far too fast a time scale has pushed the normally tolerant Brit too far.....so they say.
    Actually, that sounds completely reasonable. We have the same kind of problem in my town.

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