Make these ads go away.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 32

Thread: What is Brexit going to mean?

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    ----
     

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Kingston-upon-Thames
    Posts
    4,612
    Local Date
    11-23-2017
    Local Time
    02:58 AM
    Points
    6,688
    Gifts Beer Beer

    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    So foreigners and Muslims are all lumped together, stealing our jobs, causing hold ups at hospitals, sending benefits home to their kids overseas........we would be so better off without them.....goes the argument.
    So yes certainly some xenophobia.
    The tragedy is that the people who see things the way Bruv described don't realise that the builders and shop owners and migrant farm workers bring money into the local area in tax. If they go, that tax money goes and there aren't more spaces in the hospital, there are fewer because there's less money to pay for them. Fewer people in the area, so a GP gets cut. Fewer pupils in the Schools...
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    Bruv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Kent..... South East England
    Posts
    11,825
    Local Date
    11-23-2017
    Local Time
    01:58 AM
    Points
    61,324
    Gifts Beer Beer FacePalm Ban Hammer Beer Beer Beer Beer

    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    The tragedy is that the people who see things the way Bruv described don't realise that the builders and shop owners and migrant farm workers bring money into the local area in tax. If they go, that tax money goes and there aren't more spaces in the hospital, there are fewer because there's less money to pay for them. Fewer people in the area, so a GP gets cut. Fewer pupils in the Schools...
    I have used this analogy before and think it still fits our situation right now.

    We have thrown an open invitation house party, but far too many have turned up...............the very numbers arriving have spoiled it for everyone. Nobody can dance, nobody can get a drink, nobody can get to the toilets............some must leave for the good of everyone, friends family and neighbours can stay..........strangers are top priority to leave.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    ----
     

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Kingston-upon-Thames
    Posts
    4,612
    Local Date
    11-23-2017
    Local Time
    02:58 AM
    Points
    6,688
    Gifts Beer Beer

    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Oh, I missed the paranoid post. You know Bruv, I hope so. I really do.

    Heard much about Syria or the Ukraine in the news recently?
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    Bruv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Kent..... South East England
    Posts
    11,825
    Local Date
    11-23-2017
    Local Time
    01:58 AM
    Points
    61,324
    Gifts Beer Beer FacePalm Ban Hammer Beer Beer Beer Beer

    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    Oh, I missed the paranoid post. You know Bruv, I hope so. I really do.

    Heard much about Syria or the Ukraine in the news recently?
    They drip feed us the news they want to
    The fad at the moment is the sexual misdemeanors of our politicians.....................I almost feel sorry for them.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    ----
     

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Kingston-upon-Thames
    Posts
    4,612
    Local Date
    11-23-2017
    Local Time
    02:58 AM
    Points
    6,688
    Gifts Beer Beer

    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    I have used this analogy before and think it still fits our situation right now.

    We have thrown an open invitation house party, but far too many have turned up...............the very numbers arriving have spoiled it for everyone. Nobody can dance, nobody can get a drink, nobody can get to the toilets............some must leave for the good of everyone, friends family and neighbours can stay..........strangers are top priority to leave.
    I do see what you are saying.

    The trouble is, some have decided to encourage leavers by throwing acid onto people of a different colour and others are blaming the overcrowding on the rest of the Town and say we should leave. When the shouting dies down we've left the Town, there's a lot of broken glass and only a few people and it's a heck of a long walk anywhere. And there are wolves.

    Even the brexiters are now claiming that everyone always knew there would be a difficult transition period which is not what they were claiming a month or two ago when it was all hard brexit now. It's not a question of are we going to be poorer in the next few years, that's settled - we are. The questions now are how much? And for how long?

    I think the basic problem has been our own bad governance and failure to keep a sufficiently free press. If that sounds odd I consider that multiple titles and media under single ownership (however disguised) are not actually free and the distortions of our right wing press have misled a large number of people. Can the Mail honestly be considered a news paper?

    Anyway, the end result is that we will almost certainly end up leaving the EU as an attempt to solve the problem of our own bad governance. Since the attempted solution has little relevance to the problem I don't think it will work.
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    ----
     

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Kingston-upon-Thames
    Posts
    4,612
    Local Date
    11-23-2017
    Local Time
    02:58 AM
    Points
    6,688
    Gifts Beer Beer

    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Goldsmith does not share my views - but credit to the man, it's the most sensible comment I've heard from any brexiter.

    Thank you for getting in touch.

    I don’t share the pessimistic view that some have in relation the future of our country. We are one of the world’s biggest economies, we are geographically well placed to continue playing a big role in world affairs, our language is the global language, our judiciary is trusted, our democracy is the envy of much of the world, and our legal system provides more certainty and clarity than can be expected virtually anywhere else. In addition, people want to live, work and invest here. None of that is going to change.

    Of course leaving the EU represents a big step, and as with any change there are challenges and opportunities. But that would also have been true had we chosen to stay put. The EU is fast changing. No one knows where it will end up, but we do know that with the exception of the UK, *the fastest growing political movements in almost every country in the EU are extreme ones. No one can read the future with certainty, but my view for what it’s worth is that the risk of being tied to an institution that refuses to reform, and which is likely not to last, is far greater than the risk of standing on our own feet.

    FYI, I have copied below the text of an open letter issued by the PM last week which addresses some of the concerns about our future post Brexit.
    *
    My principle focus for now is the environment. If you have time, here is a link to a recent speech I gave in Parliament on the issue:*https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debat...3A24911#g468.0

    Brexit gives us a chance to do things very differently, and that opens countless opportunities. But there are difficulties – particularly around governance and the principles - and they need addressing.

    I have been working with environmental lawyers, campaigners and like-minded MPs on a solution that can work alongside the Withdrawal Bill. I think we are there – with buy-in from the main green groups, a sufficient number of MPs, and the key people in DEFRA - but I hope you will understand if I do not at this stage go into more detail.

    Finally, the Government remains committed to Heathrow expansion, but I believe the arguments are shifting and am convinced common sense will prevail. I will continue to do all I can.

    Best wishes,

    Zac Goldsmith*
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    ----
     

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Kingston-upon-Thames
    Posts
    4,612
    Local Date
    11-23-2017
    Local Time
    02:58 AM
    Points
    6,688
    Gifts Beer Beer

    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    My feelings are that

    We are sliding down the list of world economies and brexit will speed that up

    Geographically we control the sea lanes to NW Europe. Useful in War but political factors - like membership of the EU - also have a part to play and we've just done the equivalent of vote to row the island 1,000 miles into the Atlantic, politically speaking.

    American is the global language. We will continue to gain a benefit from teaching a posh sounding version.

    Judiciary, democracy and legal systems are indeed trusted but so is Germany's or France's or the EU's system. You might be able to say one or the other is better but not by a vast amount. And let's not forget many of us have reservations about first past the post as a system. And let's not forget that Ministers have more power than Parliament now they have the right to make any changes they like to EU Law as it becomes British. The can, legally and democratically under our system ignore any law they don't like the look of. Their personal choice right wing brexit tory version of say, workers rights, not Parliament's and not ours. I hope they do the right thing but I shouldn't have to hope.

    His concerns around the collapse of the EU are also ones I share, however, my concern is that the collapse of the EU will lead to war, either between furious ex-member states or in reaction to, say Russian "peacekeeping" operations in, eg, Lithuania. We might be able to stay out but unless we leave NATO we probably won't be able to.

    edit: Oh and on the extreme parties - we led the way with UKIP, they are just following, encouraged by our example. All extremist groups want to leave the EU because they know extreme groups get nowhere inside the EU. They get so far then stop, swamped by the mainstream, by the sheer number of ordinary moderate people. For extremes to thrive, they must leave the EU, as we have done.
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

  8. #28
    Proudly humble
    is Lost in the Ozone, again.
     
    I am:
    Cool
     
    LarsMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    usually on the road to somewhere.
    Posts
    9,522
    Local Date
    11-22-2017
    Local Time
    08:58 PM
    Points
    36,367
    Gifts Beer Balloons Gift Car Beer

    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    They drip feed us the news they want to
    The fad at the moment is the sexual misdemeanors of our politicians.....................I almost feel sorry for them.
    Interesting how the same sort of issues seem to take the news' attention on both sides of the pond.
    Though it seems that it's more the misconduct of actors getting splashed across our news feeds of late. Politicians' misconduct strikes too close to the Twit in Chief.

    But the "Current Issue at Hand" seems to remain remarkably consistent in theme, if not in plot for the entire "Western" civilization.
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so."
    - Anonymous

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    ----
     

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Kingston-upon-Thames
    Posts
    4,612
    Local Date
    11-23-2017
    Local Time
    02:58 AM
    Points
    6,688
    Gifts Beer Beer

    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Brexit and Trump are very good for Putin and very good for China.

    I don't think either will be good for the US, the UK or the EU.

    With the Paradise papers coming out as well there's a sense of overload if anything. Hmm. If any powers were trying to keep the West so concerned with internal issues they have no time to spare for anything else they're having an effect. On the other hand this sort of stuff does give the chance to clean up a bit. chuckle. Maybe Trump IS having an effect draining the swamp, by the reaction against him and what he represents by way of overpowerful men (mostly if not entirely) and the arrogance of the ultrawealthy. Just not the swamp he thought, and not the way he thought.

    Increasingly, I want less and less Chinese or Russian investment. Chinese global purchases of resources in Africa and for example, Piraeus (the biggest container port in Greece) suggest to me more than random purchases. With Russia I am just concerned with corruption and short term chaos.
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    ----
     

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Kingston-upon-Thames
    Posts
    4,612
    Local Date
    11-23-2017
    Local Time
    02:58 AM
    Points
    6,688
    Gifts Beer Beer

    Re: What is Brexit going to mean?

    Register to remove this ad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    I can understand why the EU was formed. It's the same reason the United States was formed from the original colonies. Solidarity is economic and military strength. I'm not sure why Britain wanted to exit, other than (historically deserved) national pride. I guess it's similar to why Texas wants out of the U.S. Their economic interests aren't quite the same as the entire country's interests.

    I did find it fascinating, though, that the Brexit was voted almost exclusively by the rural, and the EU was voted almost exclusively by the urban voters of Britain... What does that say about the gap between the two?
    Sorry, I missed this earlier. It's a very good question.

    Ok, first off we're really talking about England here, not Britain. Scotland, Wales and N Ireland have their own reasons for the way they voted and there wasn't a rural/urban split in the way there was in England.

    Second, England is a highly manicured garden. Even the wildernesses in the garden are carefully tended. There is a LOT of wealth there, as well as some of the most devastating pockets of poverty in the country. It's THE core area of Nationalist Conservatism as a political force with attitudes that were getting old fashioned in about 1930 and who fear and hate any change since then. They aren't just Conservatives, they are mostly right wing Conservatives who never liked Europe. I know these people - I grew up among them. They are the families that got wealthy when we had an Empire and who have been losing wealth as the Empire declined and fell, plus poverty traps full of people who feel (wrongly I fear) they have nothing to lose from any change. Both were told by the popular papers that all their woes were the fault of the EU. Look at a map of General Election results and the same rural areas vote Conservative as voted Leave, pretty much. They don't like workers' rights - or shirkers' charters as they tend to call them - and they care a lot about the lowest taxes possible.
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.5.2