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Thread: Trump restarts Middle East conflict

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    Trump restarts Middle East conflict

    Well, he hadn't dominated global headlines for a few days so he had to do something: Move the US embassy to Jerusalem. That's going to end peace in the area.

    I gather it was an election commitment to his far right religious support. Hypocrites who create conflict and love to feed Death. If there is a Hell, they are already booked in to burn for all eternity.

    No support for the move from anyone yet, though I gather they hope the Czech Republic and Philippines might follow the US.

    Saw an interview with Tom Hanks the other day. He was asked how he'd play Trump. He said that he'd play him as a practical man, but one without empathy, without imagination and an inability to consider anything more than 48 hours ahead. Interesting, I thought.
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    Re: Trump restarts Middle East conflict

    Just watched the reaction in Jerusalem on the news, it has started.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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    Re: Trump restarts Middle East conflict

    Should I put the case, as I see it?

    I need at least three words common throughout the thread. Israel, the part governed by the Knesset, okay? Palestine, the part of the Gaza strip and the West bank where Palestinians are allowed to live, okay? And the two parts added together which I'll call the Mandate area. All I need is shorthand words that mean the same thing throughout.

    The peace thrust this century has been for a two state solution, two sovereign states, no territorial sharing or overlap. That process has gone nowhere and can never go anywhere because (1) Israel is not going to allow Palestine its own foreign policy, specifically any capacity to wage war and (2) there's too little of the West Bank left for Palestinians to get around in and (3) an independent Palestine would allow a right of return and that's not going to be allowed either.

    So, if there's a solution to be found which allows the residents of Israel and Palestine to co-exist it has to be in a single state encompassing all the Mandate, and the capital of that single state is obviously going to be Jerusalem the way it always was until the Mandate was partitioned in 1948.

    The problem with governing the single state is the lack of rights currently granted to Palestinians living within the Mandate area. The Palestinians have their rights curtailed in at least terms of mobility and a vote in Knesset elections and the right to own property anywhere in Israel, to pick three. It comes down to discriminatory treatment, and it's not as though the discrimination is invisible.

    Constructing a single state over the entire territory, with citizenship for all and outlawing discrimination, provides the only available solution to the current impasse. And where's the capital? Jerusalem. Why would anyone want it anywhere else?

    I suggest President Trump may have just dynamited a logjam and that a just solution can now be pursued. If everyone knows he's now wrecked all chance of a two state solution then that's ideal.
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    Re: Trump restarts Middle East conflict

    It might work out the way you say. We can certainly hope. It just requires more sense compassion and understanding than there ever seems to have been over the issue. I'll believe it when I see it.
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    Re: Trump restarts Middle East conflict

    Im still trying to figure out why he would have a go at May whilst she was still touring the middle east. Trump does not like to be out of the loop does he? Now this.

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    Re: Trump restarts Middle East conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Should I put the case, as I see it?

    I need at least three words common throughout the thread. Israel, the part governed by the Knesset, okay? Palestine, the part of the Gaza strip and the West bank where Palestinians are allowed to live, okay? And the two parts added together which I'll call the Mandate area. All I need is shorthand words that mean the same thing throughout.

    The peace thrust this century has been for a two state solution, two sovereign states, no territorial sharing or overlap. That process has gone nowhere and can never go anywhere because (1) Israel is not going to allow Palestine its own foreign policy, specifically any capacity to wage war and (2) there's too little of the West Bank left for Palestinians to get around in and (3) an independent Palestine would allow a right of return and that's not going to be allowed either.

    So, if there's a solution to be found which allows the residents of Israel and Palestine to co-exist it has to be in a single state encompassing all the Mandate, and the capital of that single state is obviously going to be Jerusalem the way it always was until the Mandate was partitioned in 1948.

    The problem with governing the single state is the lack of rights currently granted to Palestinians living within the Mandate area. The Palestinians have their rights curtailed in at least terms of mobility and a vote in Knesset elections and the right to own property anywhere in Israel, to pick three. It comes down to discriminatory treatment, and it's not as though the discrimination is invisible.

    Constructing a single state over the entire territory, with citizenship for all and outlawing discrimination, provides the only available solution to the current impasse. And where's the capital? Jerusalem. Why would anyone want it anywhere else?

    I suggest President Trump may have just dynamited a logjam and that a just solution can now be pursued. If everyone knows he's now wrecked all chance of a two state solution then that's ideal.
    As I recall the constitution of Israel, as set up by the Israelis when they declared UDI, guaranteed the resident Arab/Palestinian population equal rights. That makes a large percentage of the laws passed in the last forty years unconstitutional.

    Until and unless those laws are repealed there is no possibility of a single state solution to the problem.

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    Re: Trump restarts Middle East conflict

    Israel was set up by a vote of the United Nations with no veto by any Security Council member. After which there was a lot of shooting, a lot of taking over Arab villages and a lot of refugee Palestinians camped in Lebanon and Jordan, having fled their homeland. Those original 1948 UN demarcations have since been moved too. Bosnian Serbs got slapped down for doing no more than this. A comparative body count might even find I'm right as far as that goes.
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    Re: Trump restarts Middle East conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Israel was set up by a vote of the United Nations with no veto by any Security Council member. After which there was a lot of shooting, a lot of taking over Arab villages and a lot of refugee Palestinians camped in Lebanon and Jordan, having fled their homeland. Those original 1948 UN demarcations have since been moved too. Bosnian Serbs got slapped down for doing no more than this. A comparative body count might even find I'm right as far as that goes.
    All you say is true but they still declared UDI on the night before the official transfer of power was due to take place. As far as I can gather this was so that they could impose their own rules rather than accept those set by the UN and the UK.

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    Re: Trump restarts Middle East conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    Well, he hadn't dominated global headlines for a few days so he had to do something: Move the US embassy to Jerusalem. That's going to end peace in the area.

    I gather it was an election commitment to his far right religious support. Hypocrites who create conflict and love to feed Death. If there is a Hell, they are already booked in to burn for all eternity.

    No support for the move from anyone yet, though I gather they hope the Czech Republic and Philippines might follow the US.

    Saw an interview with Tom Hanks the other day. He was asked how he'd play Trump. He said that he'd play him as a practical man, but one without empathy, without imagination and an inability to consider anything more than 48 hours ahead. Interesting, I thought.
    Self prophesy on behalf of the religious right. They've always believed that Armageddon is to begin in the middle east. And if doesn't look like it will happen as they believe it should then they'll make damn sure it does.

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    Re: Trump restarts Middle East conflict

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