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Thread: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

  1. #31
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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    Sounds like Mr Foote is very much in my position: doesn't like the idea but thinks the alternative is worse.
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

  2. #32
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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    That would seem a fair assessment. Saw nogel farage and alastair cambell on the daily politics show today. Campbell seems to be better able to keep his temper nowadays and farage is still a liar.

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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    Been reading a lot of Campbell in the New European. Bit more wisdom these days to go with the wit, perhaps.

    It seems the official enquiry into Leave's alleged money laundering activities during the referendum campaign is heavily critical. The reason this is suspected is that those criticised get copies of those parts of the report and a chance to respond before the final report is published and the Press have picked up some screaming coming from Leave campaigners implicated. Legal challenges will delay things one can assume, so perhaps the report won't be released in time to be relevant at all, but it looks pretty damning.

    When you have a vote that was won by a very small margin and find that the "winning" side was hugely in breach of the rules then the result of that referendum has no validity. The country was cheated.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8414176.html

    Leading businesses should stop warning about the economic impact of Brexit and instead “get behind Theresa May”, Jeremy Hunt has said.

    The health secretary said it was “completely inappropriate” for industry leaders to “undermine” the prime minister by speaking out about their fears.

    We have an unelected prime minister being given dictorial powers thank goodness we are taking back control.

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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    In this situation I am not taking it for granted that you will even try to leave the UK until I see it. At present it seems to me Sturgeon is only testing the waters: nothing she has done so far can be clearly shown to be an attempt to start indyref2, she could stop the process now and deny they'd ever planned anything.

    I think she wants to go ahead; whether she judges the time is NOW is a different matter.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    In this situation I am not taking it for granted that you will even try to leave the UK until I see it. At present it seems to me Sturgeon is only testing the waters: nothing she has done so far can be clearly shown to be an attempt to start indyref2, she could stop the process now and deny they'd ever planned anything.

    I think she wants to go ahead; whether she judges the time is NOW is a different matter.
    She's playing a canny hand, remember the vote was to stay in the union in 2014 so she's doing her best to preserve it and not be seen as going hell for leather independence regardless of the consequences. It's not all about the SNP the walkout has had the effect of making more scots aware of what is at stake post-Brexit and there is a groundswell for independence now. Salmond lost his seat to a tory and if you look at which seats they lost it was in areas that voted to remain in the union and out of the eu the SNP are a bit like marmite in some ways, not all their policies have been successful. Most people in Scotland do understand how being in the EU benefits us now it should be becoming clear to the farmers and fishermen and those in the oil industry who have now lost their jobs just how bad tory Britain Brexit post-Brexit is going to be the tories are hanging on by their fingernails.

    In the manifesto they accepted the results of the referendum but reserved the option of calling another referendum should there be a material change - such as leaving the EU and remember that was one of the key issues during the referendum. She also said post-EU referendum that there would be no indyref until it was clear what the Brexit deal was going to be. Despite what was reported in the likes of the daily mail and the BBC she has never actually said anything different the only ones that go on about independence are actually the tories ruth Davidson mentions it more than anyone else. They started the 2014 campaign with less than25% of the people in favour of independence with the entire media hostile to the idea and pushing a pack of lies (the vow for example) that some fell for and hopefully people won't be so gullible now and the way the Scottish government is being sidelined and mocked in Westminster

    This isn't about whether Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP run Scotland it's about whether Scotland should be an independent nation and the SNP will be able to call for a referendum claiming quite accurately that they did their best for Scotland staying in the union and now the only option left is independence. All the arguments put for a hard Brexit equally apply for a hard Scottish independence settlement. You really do need us more than we need you. Goodness knows how the labour party is going to end up after all this. Twenty years from now I can visualise a history exam question. Did Tony Blair and Gordon Brown destroy the labour party?

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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    The mocking works for you of course but it isn't actually anti-Scottish per se. It's a standard part of the way Westminster operates and expresses its feelings. Liar Johnson got a fair dose yesterday for hiding in Afghanistan and the Scottish Nationalist Party can expect a lot of it from the Conservative and Unionist Party by their very nature as expressed in the full names.

    I'm aware of the material change element to indyref1 and since my argument against Scottish Independence during it was based around EU membership I'm rather forced into a position where I cannot deny that Brexit is a material change and my reasons against Scottish independence have been largely destroyed by it. Add to that the total dog's Brexit they are making of it and tough though it will be to actually go through with, I think it is worth it to Scotland if England and Wales leave.

    I'll be very interested if Sturgeon starts having little chats with the Norwegians and Icelanders. I think she is already talking to Varadkar in Ireland.
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

  8. #38
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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies


  9. #39
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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    Register to remove this ad.
    chuckle. I was glad to see that Farage had stopped laughing by the end. Some of what Verhofstadt said got through. What he said was absolutely true.


    Big issue of Scottish independence is that you have a huge sea territory and you need a navy and air force to control it. That IS necessary full stop. If you intend to stay part of NATO you have responsibilities to keep track of hostile/Russian activity as well. That's expensive.
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

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