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Thread: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

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    Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    I can't seem to quote excerpts so here's the link - it's a short article.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

    There is apparently an investigation going on in the EU which has seized data and is active but of course there will be no investigation in the UK because senior Leave campaigners are in the government and able to make sure it doesn't happen.

    The vote was the will of people - yeah sure. Just fewer of them were British than we thought.

    Brexiters - the patsies of Yankee fascists and Putin.


    The next attempt to ensure the devastation of the country happens on June 12th when the Gov't will attempt to overturn all the Lords amendments in a single sitting. They'll probably succeed because the whipping will be ferocious and Corbyn wanting Brexit for his experiments means Labour will probably back the government and there won't be enough rebels on both sides. However, there IS something of an organised cross party Remain group but whether they will be able to agree THIS is a moment to fight is a different matter. I can understand wanting to pick your fights but I fear they will keep saying, "Not now..." until it is too late:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
    Lone voice: "I'm not."

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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    You never seem to get a rational debate on this it always seems to be a brexiteers talking over anyone that disagrees and interviewers doing nothing to control them.

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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    That's all brexiters HAVE done: spin lies. So it's not surprising that they can't agree among themselves after 2 years what brexit even is! Leave everything? Stay in the Single Market? Stay in the Customs Union? They said leaving the Customs Union and Single Market was madness - that no-one was even suggesting it before the vote - and now they are stuck in a fight between the hard and soft brexiters, paralysed. Meanwhile the Dutch government has reminded its car factories that UK parts will no longer count as EU parts after brexit, and to be sure that their cars are still at least 55% EU sourced to count as EU made.

    £ was 1.35-1.40 vs the Euro before the vote. Slides between 1.07 and 1.15 now.

    Investment down, inflation up, jobs leaving. What a mess.

    And given 2 out of 3 gov't scenarios for hard brexit had food shortages I'm giving serious thought to stockpiling.
    Last edited by Clodhopper; 06-07-2018 at 05:02 AM. Reason: Had £ and Euro wrong way round
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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    I find myse3lf getting increasingly irratated by the coverage of these issues, never thought I would see the day but the bbc seems increasingkly to be the mouth piece of the government

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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    I find myse3lf getting increasingly irratated by the coverage of these issues, never thought I would see the day but the bbc seems increasingkly to be the mouth piece of the government
    On that one I consider myself too involved in the issues to be able to judge fairly. I consider it not pro-Brexit but trying to stay neutral, which would tend to make it look mealy mouthed from where I am. And it does. It is consistently attacked for being the EU's poodle and both far right and left accuse it of favouring the other. I also wonder to what extent it is concerned with avoiding riots and trying to damp down some of the heat around brexit.
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    It was always obvious that there were going to be initial dips in the value of the Pound as a result of the Referendum. However, this is not directly a result of whether we're in or out of the EU. It's a matter of uncertainty one way or the other. If you look at a graph demonstrating the value of the pound on a daily / weekly basis, every time you see a dip is when there has been something in the news that puts some question over what is happening. When there was question about whether Article 50 would be invoked it dipped. Once it had been done it peaked again. Then, when there were questions as to whether or not it would be overruled, it dipped again, then once it was determined that it would stay in place it peaked again.

    The simple point is that business requires some clarification of exactly what the situation is going to be so that they can make some level of contingency for it, whatever the outcome. The problem is that the Tories never had a Plan B for the unlikely event of the result being to leave. They were far too cock sure it would be overwhelmingly to Remain. And least Labour had formulated some plan, despite their also being certain it would be Remain. Even now it seems as if there is no positive plan in mind & time is rapidly running out. When challenged over & over again to state when they would release their White Paper on what their plans were May repeatedly dodged the question & refused to answer. One has to ask why.

    Brexit is not the problem. It is the management of Brexit that is the real problem. Both sides of the House are agreed that we abide by the result of the Referendum, so it is accepted that we are leaving. Let us take that as a moot point. Now comes the question of how we go about it. It is a Cross Party issue, and I don't believe any individual Party has all the answers, so I believe that all Parties concerned need to get together on a Cross Party Committee & sort out a deal that is best for the COUNTRY, not the PARTY.

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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    I can't seem to quote excerpts so here's the link - it's a short article.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp

    There is apparently an investigation going on in the EU which has seized data and is active but of course there will be no investigation in the UK because senior Leave campaigners are in the government and able to make sure it doesn't happen.

    The vote was the will of people - yeah sure. Just fewer of them were British than we thought.

    Brexiters - the patsies of Yankee fascists and Putin.


    The next attempt to ensure the devastation of the country happens on June 12th when the Gov't will attempt to overturn all the Lords amendments in a single sitting. They'll probably succeed because the whipping will be ferocious and Corbyn wanting Brexit for his experiments means Labour will probably back the government and there won't be enough rebels on both sides. However, there IS something of an organised cross party Remain group but whether they will be able to agree THIS is a moment to fight is a different matter. I can understand wanting to pick your fights but I fear they will keep saying, "Not now..." until it is too late:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp
    So the Remainers are whiter than white are they ? Let's face it, most politicians are corrupt to a greater or lesser degree aren't they ?
    I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully

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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    Brexit is not the problem.

    It is the management of Brexit that is the real problem.
    I very nearly agree with you except that the EU was never the problem either.

    The complaints of loss of sovereignty, migrants on benefits, floods of migrants etc. etc. that was the argument FOR Brexit we have all learned since was due to our (in your words) management of rules we had already had in place within the EU.

    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

    Quote Originally Posted by G#Gill View Post
    So the Remainers are whiter than white are they ? Let's face it, most politicians are corrupt to a greater or lesser degree aren't they ?
    In the sense that Hitler was a criminal and so is a shoplifter, yes. But then in those terms none of us has a leg to stand on since none of us are perfect. Some are pretty dodgy - far right tories, Liar Johnson for example. Others not so much - Davis is just stupid and lazy. Most actually get started in politics because they want to make a difference in a positive way. But politics has been described as the art of compromise and if you don't get everything you say you will people tend to see it as failure even if you got 75% of what you wanted, so we get spin and/or outright lies.


    And the thing is it is increasingly clear that the Russians backed Brexit in real, practical ways, rich Americans and Trump backed Brexit in real practical ways, the brexit campaign looks very much as though it overspent and knew it and hid it, and with all that behind it, it still only squeaked a narrow "win".


    Saw on my news feed today Farage admitting that the country looked as though it was going to be worse off after Brexit, in his view because we've got the wrong leader. From the leader who ran away.
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
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    Re: Leave vote won by electoral cheating and lies

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    David davis show his utter contempt for our parilamentary process. If people voted fpr brexit to take back control I'm fairly sure most didn;t want parliament to be sidestepped by a bunch of fasciosyts.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7625256.html

    Secondly, what we can’t have is either House of Parliament reversing the decision for the British people. They haven’t got a veto – what does it mean otherwise?
    Looks like indyref 2 is now on the cards

    'Dark day for devolution' as shambolic Commons vote sees power grab pass | The National

    FARCICAL scenes in the House of Commons last night ended with the debate over the fate of Holyrood post-Brexit being given just 15 minutes in the chamber, with not one Scottish MP allowed to speak.
    Of course the utter contempt being shown for the scottish parliament and the devolution settlement won't feature in any of the mainstream reports.

    The referendum was advisoryt it was never intended to be binding. I really hate what is happening to our democracy.

    Just to emphasise the point not a single one of the mainstream papers mentions it.

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/162...ake_the_cover/

    The story is, quite simply, that the vote in the Commons yesterday has fundamentally changed our relationship with devolution.

    Westminster have taken an irreversible step down a path they may regret starting on.
    There is really not a single argument anyone could now put that could justify staying as part of the united kingdom.

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