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Thread: Well, that was an interesting G7

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    Re: Well, that was an interesting G7

    Churchill described Montgomery as, "In war, unbeatable; in peace, unbearable." (or something pretty close). Not far off for him, either. A disastrous Chancellor and in the Home Office his behaviour was consistent with what you describe in Glasgow. But it really is questionable if we'd have survived unbeaten without him.

    Brexit means we take back control and give it to far right Tory Ministers without any control whatever. They then bargain it away to the US in return for chlorinated chicken and hormone pumped beef.

    Someone said of Churchill that he had a hundred ideas a day. The difficulty was spotting the one or two genuinely good ones. The tank - yes. But also Gallipoli... Alan Brooke, his CIGS, spent half or more of the next war fighting Churchill as much as the enemy. Credit to Churchill - he appointed Brooke and never sacked him. Churchill understood he needed someone to put the brakes on him, by that point in his career.

    Johnson, on the other hand, is just setting up his own Gallipoli...


    chuckle. I assume you know from Johnson's book if nowhere else that after Gallipoli Churchill did self impose penance by fighting on the Western Front? Not (of course!) as a private soldier but as a General if he could get it. However Haig (I think) heard about it and he was made Lt Colonel of a Scots' Regiment and did front line duty, where from all I've picked up he showed himself personally fearless and was a great success, though there were no big operations while he was there, I think. Given that a lot of the very top brass was Scottish at the time I doubt Churchill's appointment to a Scots' Regiment was unmindful of what had happened in Glasgow.
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    Re: Well, that was an interesting G7

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    Churchill described Montgomery as, "In war, unbeatable; in peace, unbearable." (or something pretty close). Not far off for him, either. A disastrous Chancellor and in the Home Office his behaviour was consistent with what you describe in Glasgow. But it really is questionable if we'd have survived unbeaten without him.

    Brexit means we take back control and give it to far right Tory Ministers without any control whatever. They then bargain it away to the US in return for chlorinated chicken and hormone pumped beef.

    Someone said of Churchill that he had a hundred ideas a day. The difficulty was spotting the one or two genuinely good ones. The tank - yes. But also Gallipoli... Alan Brooke, his CIGS, spent half or more of the next war fighting Churchill as much as the enemy. Credit to Churchill - he appointed Brooke and never sacked him. Churchill understood he needed someone to put the brakes on him, by that point in his career.

    Johnson, on the other hand, is just setting up his own Gallipoli...


    chuckle. I assume you know from Johnson's book if nowhere else that after Gallipoli Churchill did self impose penance by fighting on the Western Front? Not (of course!) as a private soldier but as a General if he could get it. However Haig (I think) heard about it and he was made Lt Colonel of a Scots' Regiment and did front line duty, where from all I've picked up he showed himself personally fearless and was a great success, though there were no big operations while he was there, I think. Given that a lot of the very top brass was Scottish at the time I doubt Churchill's appointment to a Scots' Regiment was unmindful of what had happened in Glasgow.
    Red clydeside wasn't until AFTER the war in 1919. It's an affair that many are completely unaware of. By all accounts his men seem to have thought well of him.

    Churchill was a man of his time a lot of others were imperialist, racist, mysoginistic (suffragettes were viewed as terrorists and treated appallingly) in those days. An awful lot of people did and believed things we would consider appalling nowadays. At least he was always consistent about hitler.

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    Re: Well, that was an interesting G7

    Red clydeside wasn't until AFTER the war in 1919. It's an affair that many are completely unaware of.
    I was aware but wrong on the timing and so the implictions. I stand corrected.
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    Re: Well, that was an interesting G7

    It's an interesting period in our history. post ww1 the establishment were absolutely terrified there might be a communist uprising in the UK.

    To go back to the actual thread I think this has the potential to backfire on the US spectacularly. The eu, china, russie the bric countries can just increase trade with other to make up for lost markets in the US the US needs to trade to survive. One thing trump doesn't seem to consider in the trade equation is that of financial services take that in to account and canada has a trade deficit with the US.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1d8a46e8-...e-cc62a39d57a0

    What if the world decides the doller is no longer one of the largest reserve currencies and was replaced by say the yuan? If russia did play a significant part in getting trump elected and their motives were no more than just causing mischief this must have them rolling in the aisles.

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    Re: Well, that was an interesting G7

    To go back to the actual thread I think this has the potential to backfire on the US spectacularly. The eu, china, russie the bric countries can just increase trade with other to make up for lost markets in the US the US needs to trade to survive.

    I've been wondering how true that is. Not saying you are wrong, just unsure. Yes, the RotW can increase trade among themselves but the US is a Continental power. They have access to pretty much all the resources they need internally and have a huge internal market. I simply don't know what it would take to hurt them, economically, in a way that mattered politically.

    No Uranium, I think, in the USA. Apart from on warheads.

    I'm pretty sure Putin tried to influence both the US election and the brexit referendum. I think he had considerable success in both but proving it is difficult since the trail is bound to be obscured and when you have national security services involved and the resources THEY have...anything is possible. When the PM, the Defence Secretary AND the EU are all saying Russia is a big problem and you have more poisoned enemies of Putin on our streets (plus collateral damage) then yeah, I think brexit can be regarded as a huge Russian success: It has enormously damaged the EU and the UK and has made Putin's efforts in the Ukraine, Syria, Georgia and the Crimea much easier.

    Whether t6hey can prove collusion between Trump and the Russians I must admit I doubt. It would be incredibly stupid if there is a trail investigators can follow but the arrogance of people like Trump knows no bounds and might be his downfall (as with his "charity", aka extra bank account.)
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    Re: Well, that was an interesting G7

    I've been wondering how true that is. Not saying you are wrong, just unsure. Yes, the RotW can increase trade among themselves but the US is a Continental power. They have access to pretty much all the resources they need internally and have a huge internal market. I simply don't know what it would take to hurt them, economically, in a way that mattered politically.

    Perhaps the military? This may bring about the demise of US hegemony and if they are going to be isolationist why do they need a military able to project power anywhere in the world? The us has a large fleet to protect their interests but if they pull out of the pacific and middle east why do they need conventional military power when they have nuclear weapons as a deterrent against attack on the homeland. If trump brings back the troops from korea where will they go? Will us citizens tolerate a large military sitting around doing nothing? Make america great sounds a bit naff if it means having no carrier fleet for instance. Never mind the cost saving what would be the effect of they start scrapping carriers and stopping new builds?

    What about the internet - we don't need to have everything based in the us and how long before that shifts from the us to europe and elsewhere? Let's face it who wants to have a US run by trump with the ability to screw up the internet? Google and facebook are already in trouble with the eu, amazon could be kicked out that would really hurt them I think. Personally I think amazon is doinmg a great deal of harm to our economy made worse by not paying any taxes.

    US software companies insist that terms of business be based on US law that could change. There are a whole lot of "soft" trade issues at stake here not just steel and agriculture.

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    Re: Well, that was an interesting G7

    Now we have a US Administration taking kids from their parents, locking them in cages and deporting the parents but keeping the kids, if I've got this right.

    Wow.

    What next? Einsatzgruppen?


    And isn't he using the terrorist justification? They will keep doing this because Democrats won't give them what they demand. If the Democrats were to give them what they demand they wouldn't do this so it's the Democrats' responsibility?


    Given Trump has just announced a new offensive in his trade war with China he doesn't seem too bothered. I struggle to find any coherence in his policies and I think that may be the point: he creates and tries to manipulate chaos. By having 25 issues on the go at any time no-one can concentrate on any single one for long, or at least no-one does. The only thing that does is the Mueller probe and that's gone very quiet. Hmm. And now the charity case. Perhaps people are now starting to try to pin him down on specific issues?

    If Trump starts unpicking the military/industrial complex...gosh. Chuckle. According to the conspiracy theorists various secret organisations with names like Majestic XII should kill him pronto, if he does. Maybe we will see...

    On a related issue, I saw a month or two back that Sweden has significantly increased its defence spending and reissued its civil defence advice in the event of being invaded for the first time in ages. Not hugely significant in military terms but a sign of a change in direction perhaps. I doubt anyone is thinking about disarmament except Jeremy Corbyn.

    All one can do is watch and wonder.
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    Re: Well, that was an interesting G7

    "Now we have a US Administration taking kids from their parents, locking them in cages and deporting the parents but keeping the kids, if I've got this right."

    Half right. The parents have been so far jailed, not deported.

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    Re: Well, that was an interesting G7

    That's not really a reassurance given it's the separation that's the real issue, as of course you are well aware.


    Please understand that criticisms I may make of the US smacking itself repeatedly in the nuts are to be seen in the context of my country doing the same and a strong suspicion there are connections between the two situations.


    I never thought I'd see a US administration stand there and calmly claim that the end justifies the means. Actually, not even that. They made claims that assumed everyone accepted that the end justifies the means. Border problem? Torture kids. End of problem. Policy justified.


    Human Rights? What Human Rights.
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    Re: Well, that was an interesting G7

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    You were right. Parents have been deported while their children remain as kidnap victims of the U.S. government. Kids in cages. No Human Rights. Slavery, all over again. My hatred & disgust know no bounds.

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