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Thread: 2 new Novichok poisonings

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    2 new Novichok poisonings

    Currently the working hypothesis is that it is connected to the attack on the Skripals - left over product dumped perhaps since Novichok is not common - but they have an open mind. That's according to the Chief Constable of Wiltshire.

    I don't think this was a deliberate attack by the Russians. But I hope it has opened up new avenues of enquiries for the Police - Amesbury is near Salisbury but had not previously been connected with the Skripal attack that I'm aware of. Also, the estate where the two lived is brand new - still being built according to one account I saw. Four months ago when the Skripals were poisoned it was much more of a building site. Did the suspected Russian agents involved think they'd got rid of evidence into the foundations of a building but miscalculated somehow?


    The Skripals survived but there are no guarantees these two will. It's deadly stuff.


    Also, I don't think it was done by the UK gov't to cover up Trump's visit, low opinion though I have of this gov't. I mention this because Putin's little helpers have already been suggesting this elsewhere online and bearing in mind the belief of some that the Skripals were poisoned to cover up bad local election results for the gov't. (Especially dubious since the election results for the gov't weren't that bad...)


    Trump visits here soon and then goes on to see Putin. That suddenly got a lot more interesting.
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    Re: 2 new Novichok poisonings

    One victim dead, the other expected to die soon. Some indication they got a big dose. The police are desperately searching for whatever it was they touched or picked up. It's early days yet and this is going to take time. It's curious that the poisonings took effect something like 6 or 8 hours apart: does that mean she picked something up then passed it to him later?


    People are starting to look at other cases as well. The way Novichok kills you is by causing all your internal organs to stop working at once (more or less). It's beginning to appear that a large number of Putin's enemies died suddenly and mysteriously with all their internal organs just shutting down...

    edit: That isn't a very accurate description of how Novichok works but it doesn't really matter for my point, which is that these victims died with symptoms which are NOW starting to look very like Novichok poisoning. It was simply not possible to recognise these deaths as potential Novichok poisoning until we had the first 5 known cases here to compare them with.

    I've also seen a report saying the remaining victim has taken a turn for the better so maybe he will yet survive.
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    Re: 2 new Novichok poisonings

    It seems that he's going to survive and the day after he was able to speak to police they found the container that seems to have held the poison.

    It's possible that this is a major breakthrough: there could be DNA traces on the bottle or other forensic evidence, they might be able to locate where it was when picked up which adds locations and possible suspects and they might even be able to tie it definitively to the same batch that poisoned the Skripals.

    Or it might not be.


    But it's definitely progress.
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    Re: 2 new Novichok poisonings

    We have a list of suspects apparently, according to the Press. It's not been officially confirmed. I'm not sure if this is a lack of communication between the various departments or a deliberate tactic. Anyway, at least 4 and one a woman is what I hear. It's not clear at present there's any DNA evidence, or anything else from the bottle that is firmly linked to them, this list is based on looking at hours of video around Salisbury and Amesbury and airports.


    It seems that the Novichok was in something that looked like a perfume bottle and the woman dabbed it on her wrist to smell it...
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    Re: 2 new Novichok poisonings

    So, not even necessarily a deliberate assassination attempt now. The Skripals may have also been inadvertent victims as well.

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    Re: 2 new Novichok poisonings

    What do you mean, "now"? I've never claimed that the second pair were deliberately poisoned and neither has anyone else that I know of. I think your defence of Putin in the Skripals case is deluded and your trust in Russian propaganda pathetic. And you are a brexiter, happily doing Putin's work and defending his murders.

    Really, why don't you move there? You don't trust our establishment but you trust theirs. Leaving would be the greatest service you could do this country.
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    Re: 2 new Novichok poisonings

    The last I've heard from the Police is that they now believe there were two teams involved in the assassination attempt on the Skripals, one team that came and planted the poison and the second that actually did the deed. There was a hint that the poison Charley Rowley found was in unopened packaging which would imply the first team planted at least two containers of poison and maybe more which is I think a concern at present. There was also a suggestion that Rowley can't remember where he actually found the package. I understand it's not uncommon for people who've had any sort of serious traumatic shock to have some memory loss, especially of the time around the shock.

    If the container was not the one used in the Skripals' poisoning there won't be DNA evidence linking to that murder, probably, so it's not the breakthrough I'd hoped it might be. If they can find the packaging that might yield some clues to the first team who planted the poison and who could I would guess be charged as accessories to murder.

    Although it's gone quiet in public the Authorities have chucked the kitchen sink at this one as far as I can tell. I doubt we'll ever be able to put the suspects in court because I doubt we'll ever get our hands on them - they've probably been awarded medals. But I have been quite impressed with the work the Police have done especially with the video analysis that has given us some real suspects.


    The other thing that has to be regarded as a big success in all this is that 3 out of the 4 poisoned - with a truly deadly nerve agent - were saved. That's one heck of an achievement by the doctors, nurses and scientists involved.

    edit: I've also heard a motive for the murder attempt on Skripal Snr beyond that he undoubtedly was an agent for the UK (there is a convention that you don't kill exchanged agents): That it was Putin sending a message about his power and reach to his own people before the Presidential elections. Shrug. Possible.
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    Re: 2 new Novichok poisonings

    There is also the question that seems to have been kept very quiet about his investigating the callusion between Cambridge Analytica & SCL, relating to Tory Party Donations.
    Admittedly there doesn't appear to be any hard evidence, but that is hardly surprising as they would be doing their best to cover any evidence up - even if it came to disposing of the person doing the investigation.
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    Re: 2 new Novichok poisonings

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    I'm no friend of the Tories but it was the Leave campaign and campaigners that were mostly referred to in the article. The possible hint was that Skripal Snr was investigating links between the Kremlin and the Leave Campaign and is therefore another possible motive for Putin to have him killed (if they knew and it's potentially worrying if they did). The writer rather glosses over that in his eagerness to get to the possible links with the Panama Papers.

    We've got whistleblowers from Cambridge Analytica talking about illegal data harvesting and money. The article is very, very clear about the links between vote leave and CA and vote leave and the Russians. I'm not sure of the date of the article (other than it is after March this year) and therefore what the writer may or may not have known when writing. The Panama papers are a separate scandal which might involve some of the same people and therefore pull the two scandals together. But at present we have no evidence. We can see from the splits in the Tories that Grieve and Soubry for example would never have gone along with anything Brexit related and therefore if there is a plot it involves only a clique in the Tories - the brexiters, who are also the far right.

    It is however much better evidence than anything RT says. And I should remind you that as a brexiter you are also acting for Putin, there's no doubt he wants Brexit and at least tried to influence the result of the referendum. The only disagreement is over the extent he succeeded. If it were to turn out that Johnson was also acting for Putin in the Panama Papers case that just makes him a much more important agent than you.

    Emerdata will bear watching. Interesting too that this goes quite near to Trump, also. The far right is internationally organised, we've known that for many years, but it seems they've gone to a new level in the last 5 years or so.


    It's the political extremes that want Brexit. The far right and the far left are in favour. The political centre ground - the Lib Dems, the Tory left and Labour right - oppose it.
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