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Thread: Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

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    Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

    How do titles work? How come the Queen's husband is only a prince and not a king, for instance. What is the difference between nobility and royalty?
    What is a baron compared to say, a duke? What is an earl? What do they do?

    Is there a place online that can go into depth on this?

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    Re: Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGlitter View Post
    How do titles work? How come the Queen's husband is only a prince and not a king, for instance. What is the difference between nobility and royalty?
    What is a baron compared to say, a duke? What is an earl? What do they do?

    Is there a place online that can go into depth on this?
    http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/britfaq.html

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    Re: Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGlitter View Post
    What do they do?
    Basically, they're all parasites.

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    Re: Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chookie View Post
    Basically, they're all parasites.
    Well they are Germans anyway, whatever about the parasites. One of the many reasons why we don't have your royalty anymore ourselves.
    "We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"

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    Re: Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGlitter View Post
    How do titles work? How come the Queen's husband is only a prince and not a king, for instance. What is the difference between nobility and royalty?
    What is a baron compared to say, a duke? What is an earl? What do they do?

    Is there a place online that can go into depth on this?
    'Cos if he was a king he'd outrank her.

    I believe that his British title is Duke and the Prince is from the Greek royal family.

    Some silly ones I came across recently :-

    A Count was given control of a County to administer.

    A Marquess was given a march to administer and protect (the marches were the border areas and therefore more dangerous) This is more evident from the lady's title of Marchoness.

    Whilst a Count was strictly limited to controling a single county a Marquess could hold sway over more than one.

    An Earl derives his title from the Viking Jarl who would rule as a subsiduary king.

    More useful info at :-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peerage...United_Kingdom

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    Re: Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    'Cos if he was a king he'd outrank her.

    I believe that his British title is Duke and the Prince is from the Greek royal family.

    Some silly ones I came across recently :-

    A Count was given control of a County to administer.

    A Marquess was given a march to administer and protect (the marches were the border areas and therefore more dangerous) This is more evident from the lady's title of Marchoness.

    Whilst a Count was strictly limited to controling a single county a Marquess could hold sway over more than one.

    An Earl derives his title from the Viking Jarl who would rule as a subsiduary king.

    More useful info at :-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peerage...United_Kingdom
    Interesing Brwn, actually there are a handful of Anglo-Irish peers left in the Republic, though I have no idea how thats supposed to work politically. I am not sure how it pans out, but they still have some sort of rank in the British system, and we don't seem to pay too much mind as long as they keep their heads down. Of course we have no native Irish aristocracy, as our ruling clan chiefs were all killed or fled about 450 years ago, and the rest of us were all peasants whose only privilege seemed to be eating potatos. Its nice that the peasants got to get their own country back for once.
    "We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"

    Le Rochefoucauld.

    "A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."

    My dad 1986.

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    Re: Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galbally View Post
    Interesing Brwn, actually there are a handful of Anglo-Irish peers left in the Republic, though I have no idea how thats supposed to work politically. I am not sure how it pans out, but they still have some sort of rank in the British system, and we don't seem to pay too much mind as long as they keep their heads down. Of course we have no native Irish aristocracy, as our ruling clan chiefs were all killed or fled about 450 years ago, and the rest of us were all peasants whose only privilege seemed to be eating potatos. Its nice that the peasants got to get their own country back for once.

    Well there's always the FitzGeralds, the Hamiltons and the Beresfords but they all have equivalent British titles that they use.

    How accurate is Dublin by Edward Rutherford? I found it a facinating account of Irish life and it appeared to be well researched. One of the things it highlighted was the way power moved between the native chieftans and the English who tried to rule and the English who tried to become native and between the English enclaves and those areas "beyond the pale" where the English held no sway.

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    Re: Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

    All I know is that a knight cannot be a sir unless he is a british subject. Well, at least I learned something.

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    Re: Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

    RG - there is an authoritative written work on all of this. Debrett's Peerage - aka The Stud Book. I don't think you need a copy though.

    http://www.hmsrichmond.org/avast/titles01.html

    That may help.

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    Re: Titles of Royalty and Nobility?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    Well there's always the FitzGeralds, the Hamiltons and the Beresfords but they all have equivalent British titles that they use.

    How accurate is Dublin by Edward Rutherford? I found it a facinating account of Irish life and it appeared to be well researched. One of the things it highlighted was the way power moved between the native chieftans and the English who tried to rule and the English who tried to become native and between the English enclaves and those areas "beyond the pale" where the English held no sway.
    I havn't read that book actually, but I have seen it, and I will certainly check it out as it sounds interesting. Yes, it was a very complex scene in Ireland, (as it was in England, Wales, and Scotland). Of the initial Anglo-Normans who came into Ireland in the 12 century many of these great houses became very gaelicized, and of course their allegiences were international at the time, as the Norman realms were right across western Europe. These were the people who more or less ruled the country or whatever part of it was ruleable, as the Irish were always and remain a difficult crowd to rule, (they ruled of course in the name of the King of England, who was granted lordship over Ireland by the pope in the 13th century). He was also King of France at the time I believe, I am not sure what was happening in scotland, but this was the basis of their legal power in terms of the wider European scene. In any case, outside of Norman settlements, the Native Gaels lived much as they had, though of course their Clan Cheifs were greatly influenced and impressed by the Normans so they adopted many of their ways. They also of course, fought these interlopers fiercely, but never managed to completely dislodge them.

    So English rule and aspects of English culture was imported gradually through the Norman bastions, of Dublin, Kilkenny, Waterford, etc, in other areas, the Gaelic clans gave nominal allegiance to whoever they had to, and fought each other, the odd English expeditions, and the Norman lords like the Butlers and the Desmonds (who also fought each other). These anglo-irish lords also became very much a hybrid of Irish and Norman-English ideas and customs, and were reputed by many observers to be "more Irish than the Irish themselves" as the saying goes, so it worked both ways. These lords were involved in purely English poltics such as the wars of the roses etc, so all of these things were intertwined.

    BTW, This situation remained the status quo, though (as I said earlier) the Normans generally became more native, and the country started to devleop a different polity from England as many Norman lords believed it was better that they create an Irish kingdom that they could rule themselves rather than paying lip service to the English King. There was much too-ing and fro-ing over the years. The big change in direction came during Elizabeth the Firsts reign, as England became a powerful international state, it was decided by the English that they had to secure the Island of Ireland for their own security, so thats when serious English power started to be used against the Irish, plantations, resettlements, insurgency by Native irish, and extremely harsh counter measures, particularly against the Gaelic clans, who as in Scotland were always considered the most dangerous to English interests.

    So after that, the pattern became established, anti-English rebellions by Irish, Anglo-Irish, and Presbyterian Planters (now called Unionists) were suppressed, as an Ireland not controlled or contained by London was seen as a danger to English (and eventually British) interests. This all resulted in the sad history of violence, brutality, and oppression with its worst epsiode being the famine of the 1840s that resulted in the widespread destruction of the general Gaelic culture in the country, the death and exile of millions of Irish people, and the reason why Irish people could never accept English involvement in Irish political affairs again as a general emotional feeling. This sad history still has as its result today the Republic, the divided island, the bloody troubles of Northern Ireland, and now, happily, the peace process. Fortunatly, the relationship between Britain and the Republic is generally a good one nowadays, but the north of course is still a divided and conflictual place, and the relationship between Ulster Unionists and rest of the Irish people remains a quite difficult one, though of course the current cycle of violence and unrest is at a close it seems.

    Hope that made some sense.
    "We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"

    Le Rochefoucauld.

    "A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."

    My dad 1986.

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