Obama: "Basic Standard Of Decency" Allows Illegals To Be Treated

[Kindle]

How do the Brit's handle the medical needs of non-citizens?

If I'm on vacation in England (without any insurance) and need emergency surgery, will I be properly cared for?

[spot]

Originally Posted by Kindle

How do the Brit's handle the medical needs of non-citizens?

If I'm on vacation in England (without any insurance) and need emergency surgery, will I be properly cared for?

Invariably, though you may well be presented with a bill afterwards.

[Kindle]

Originally Posted by spot

Invariably, though you may well be presented with a bill afterwards.

Invariably???

What does this entail?

[spot]

Originally Posted by Kindle

Invariably???

What does this entail?

If you're on vacation in England (without any insurance) and need emergency surgery, you will be properly cared for within the National Health System. I'm not sure what else I can add which would make the answer any more exact. You'd be admitted and treated, whether the condition were pre-existing or new. The key word is "emergency", it's unlikely you'd be treated for a chronic illness that could be dealt with on your return home.

Obviously the private medical sector would treat anyone for anything at all but they'd charge up front unlike the NHS. Whether the NHS would finally present a bill for acute emergency treatment if you're uninsured depends on the policy of the hospital management, some do and some don't.

[cigar898]

Originally Posted by spot

If you're on vacation in England (without any insurance) and need emergency surgery, you will be properly cared for within the National Health System. I'm not sure what else I can add which would make the answer any more exact. You'd be admitted and treated, whether the condition were pre-existing or new. The key word is "emergency", it's unlikely you'd be treated for a chronic illness that could be dealt with on your return home.

Obviously the private medical sector would treat anyone for anything at all but they'd charge up front unlike the NHS. Whether the NHS would finally present a bill for acute emergency treatment if you're uninsured depends on the policy of the hospital management, some do and some don't.

If the uninsured in the US go to an ER, they will receive a bill but won't be required to pay it........it's just used for medical billing and tracking by the hospital for expenditures........

[cigar898]

The 1018 page H.R. 3200 Health Reform Bill
The following list focuses on threats to our liberty found in this bill.

You can verify every threat listed below by going here to download a pdf file of the bill.
http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/1...ext-071409.pdf

All Threat List

1) Pg 22 mandates that the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure. So every employer in the United States will be subjected to a health insurance audit just as all taxpayers are subject to audit. Of course, we will have to pay for an entire new bureaucracy to do this–the Internal Health Revenue Service?

2) Pg 30, Sec 123 states that there will be a government committee that decides what treatments you are allowed and what your overall benefits are.

3) Pg 29, lines 4-16 basically mandates the rationing of health care as is being done in Canada.

4) Pg 42 recognizes the power of the Health Choices Commissioner to determine your health benefits. You will have no choice.

5) PG 50, section 152 states that free, taxpayer-paid health care will be given to the 30 million non-citizens in the USA, even illegal aliens.

6) Pg 58 states that government will have possession of all your health care records & history including finances and you will have to have a National ID Healthcard.

7) Pg 59, lines 21-24 gives direct access to your banks accounts to compel you to pay any out-of-pocket or premium costs electronically without your previous consent.

8 ) PG 65, sec 164 provides for a political payoff from the Democrats and Obama: a special subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions or community groups like ACORN.

9) Pg 72, lines 8-14 creates a Health Care Exchange to bring private health insurance plans under government control. This part of the bill reveals Obama’s lies about being able to keep your plan if you like it. Any health insurance plan which does not completely rework itself to conform to these regulations will be dropped from the exchange and those insured will have to pick one of the plans in the exchange. This is why the Congressional Budget Office determined that over 20 million will lose the coverage they are now enjoying if Obamacare is implemented.

10) PG 85, line 7 provides specifics for benefit levels for all health plans, giving government the right to ration everyone’s health care.

11) PG 91, lines 4-7 mandates that doctor’s offices, clinics and hospitals provide language-appropriate services, basically ordering them to hire translators at the expense of the American taxpayer.

12) Pg 95, lines 8-18 allows the government to hire non-profit community groups like ACORN and Americorps to sign up people for the government health plan.

13) PG 85, line 7 provides for specifics on benefit levels for Medicare recipients, basically rationing the care of every senior citizen I the United States.

14) PG 102, lines 12-18 mandates that all Medicaid eligible will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid based upon income and insurance status. No choice.

15) Pg 124, lines 24-25 states that no private company or individual can have the right to sue the federal government for medical price fixing, basically eliminating your right to seek redress in the courts regarding your medical care.

16) Pg 127, lines 1-16 dictates doctors’ payment and therefore income which will reduce what doctors earn and lead to greater shortages of doctors and more rationing of care.

17) Pg 145, line 15-17 any employer not currently insuring their employees must enroll employees into public plan option, with no choice of private insurance allowed.

18) Pg 126, lines 22-25 mandates that employers must pay for health insurance even for part-time workers and their families, which will certainly lead to massive layoffs.

19) Pg 149, lines 16-24 all employers with an annual payroll bigger than $400k who does not pay to enroll employees in public insurance option will pay an 8% tax on all payroll.

20) Pg 150, lines 9-13 mandates that employers with an annual payroll between $251K & $400K who does not pay to enroll employees in public insurance option will pay a 2-6% tax on all payroll.

21) Pg 167, lines 18-23 any individual who is self-employed and does not have health insurance will be taxed 2.5% of income and forced to accept public health insurance. So paying for health care out of pocket will be banned from the face of the earth.

22) Pg 170, lines 1-3 exempts non-resident aliens from the individual health care taxes, so Americans citizens will pay for these aliens, legal and illegal alike.

23) Pg 195 officers & employees of the new Health Care Administration will have access to all Americans personal financial records and accounts.

24) PG 203, line 14-15 actually says that “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it says that.

25) Pg 239, line 14-24 mandates that available physician services will be reduced for Medicaid recipients. Many poor people including many seniors will be affected.

26) Pg 241, line 6-8 mandates that all doctors receive the same pay, regardless of specialty. This will vastly reduce the number of specialists available in the United States, a common problem where medicine is socialized like Canada.

27) PG 253, line 10-18 allows the federal government to set the value of doctor’s time, professional judgment.

28) PG 265, Sec 1131 mandates and controls the productivity of all health care providers including surgeons!

29) PG 268, Sec 1141 regulates the rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

30) PG 272, Sec. 1145 regulates the operation of certain types of cancer hospitals, again rationing the care of cancer patients.

31) Page 280, Sec 1151 allows the government to penalize hospitals for what is deemed to be preventable readmissions. So instead of being sued for malpractice, the government will be the punitive body when mistakes are made.

32) Pg 298, lines 9-11 mandates that if a doctor treats a patient during initial admission and that result in a re-admission, the doctor will be subject to federal penalties. Gee, do you think that’s going to drive up the cost of malpractice?

33) Pg 317, lines 13-20 will create prohibitions on ownership and investment in the health service industry for doctors.

34) Pg 317-318, lines 21-25, and 1-3 will prohibit the expansion of all hospitals.

35) pg 321, lines 2-13 allows hospitals apply for an exception to the expansion rule but they must seek community input first!

36) Pg335, lines 16-25, Pg 336-339 mandates the establishment of outcome based health care and insidious idea that actually limits the treatment choices made by patients with their doctors, based upon the patient’s health and condition. This will result in the oldest, weakest and sickest patients being denied treatments simply because the statistics for success in their demographic category are poor! This is a form of health care rationing that will save money at the expense of seniors to help buy insurance for the uninsured, most of whom are young and healthy!

37) Pg 341, lines 3-9 allows the government to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans and HMO forcing people into the government run public plan.

38) Pg 354, Sec 1177 will arbitrarily restrict the enrollment of special needs children and adults.

39) Pg 379, Sec 1191 mandates the creation of even more bureaucracy in the Telehealth Advisory Committee.

40) PG 425, lines 4-12 mandates “Advance Care Planning Consultation,” another insidious vehicle to save money by encouraging seniors who are in poor health to be more accepting of death rather than fighting to stay alive and healthy and with their loved ones.

41) Pg 425, lines 17-19 mandates that all senior patients will be consulted regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney.

42) PG 425, lines 22-25, 426 lines 1-3 provides an approved list of end of life resources, to help guide seniors about the process of dying!

43) PG 427, line 15 mandates program for orders on the end of life, actually giving the government a say in how your life ends!

44) Pg 429, lines 1-9 dictates the frequency with which an Advance Care Planning Consultant will have to meet with patients as their health deteriorates.

45) PG 429, lines 10-12 give an Advance Care Planning Consultant the power to order end of life plans for a patient.

46) Pg 429, lines 13-25 will only allow certain doctors, not necessarily your own physician, to write an end of life order.

47) PG 430, lines 11-15 allows the government to decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

48) Pg 469 mandates “Community Based Home Medical Services” through non profits like ACORN. Happy yet that we elected a community organizer to the White House?

49) PG 489, Sec 1308 force taxpayers to pay for Marriage & Family therapy under the public insurance plan.

50) Pg 494-498 allows government to define mental illnesses and what services will be allowed to treat, again rationing this care.

Threats Broken Down by Category :

For those concerned with the damage this plan will do to business:

Pg 22 mandates that the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure. So every employer in the United States will be subjected to a health insurance audit just as all taxpayers are subject to audit. Of course, we will have to pay for an entire new bureaucracy to do this–the Internal Health Revenue Service?

Pg 42 recognizes the power of the Health Choices Commissioner to determine your health benefits. You will have no choice.

PG 50, section 152 states that free, taxpayer-paid health care will be given to the 30 million non-citizens in the USA, even illegal aliens.

Pg 30, Sec 123 states that there will be a government committee that decides what treatments you are allowed and what your overall benefits are.

Pg 29, lines 4-16 basically mandates the rationing of health care as is being done in Canada.

Pg 42 recognizes the power of the Health Choices Commissioner to determine your health benefits. You will have no choice.

Pg 58 states that government will have possession of all your health care records & history including finances and you will have to have a National ID Healthcard.

Pg 59, lines 21-24 gives direct access to your banks accounts to compel you to pay any out-of-pocket or premium costs electronically without your previous consent.

Pg 72, lines 8-14 creates a Health Care Exchange to bring private health insurance plans under government control. This part of the bill reveals Obama’s lies about being able to keep your plan if you like it. Any health insurance plan which does not completely rework itself to conform to these regulations will be dropped from the exchange and those insured will have to pick one of the plans in the exchange. This is why the Congressional Budget Office determined that over 20 million will lose the coverage they are now enjoying if Obamacare is implemented.

Pg 145, line 15-17 any employer not currently insuring their employees must enroll employees into public plan option, with no choice of private insurance allowed.

Pg 126, lines 22-25 mandates that employers must pay for health insurance even for part-time workers and their families, which will certainly lead to massive layoffs.

Pg 149, lines 16-24 all employers with an annual payroll bigger than $400k who does not pay to enroll employees in public insurance option will pay an 8% tax on all payroll.

Pg 167, lines 18-23 any individual who is self-employed and does not have health insurance will be taxed 2.5% of income and forced to accept public health insurance. So paying for health care out of pocket will be banned from the face of the earth.

For those concerned with the inherent unfairness in this plan

PG 65, sec 164 provides for a political payoff from the Democrats and Obama; a special subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions community groups like ACORN.

PG 102, lines 12-18 mandates that all Medicaid eligible will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid based upon income and insurance status. No choice.

Pg 124, lines 24-25 states that no private company or individual can have the right to sue the federal government for medical price fixing, basically eliminating your right to seek redress in the courts regarding your medical care.

Pg 469 mandates “Community Based Home Medical Services” through non profits like ACORN. Happy yet that we elected a community organizer to the White House?

For those afraid of healthcare rationing:

PG 85, line 7 provides specifics for benefit levels for all health plans, giving government the right to ration everyone’s healthcare.

Pg 239, line 14-24 mandates that available physician services will be reduced for Medicaid recipients. Many poor people including many seniors will be affected.

PG 272, Sec. 1145 regulates the operation of certain types of cancer hospitals, again rationing the care of cancer patients.

For those concerned with the costs of this plan:

PG 91, lines 4-7 mandates that doctor’s offices, clinics and hospitals provide language-appropriate services, basically ordering them to hire translators at the expense of the American taxpayer.

Pg 95, lines 8-18 allows the government to hire non-profit community groups like ACORN and Americorps to sign up people for the government health plan.

Pg 170, lines 1-3 exempts non-resident aliens from the individual health care taxes, so Americans citizens will pay for these aliens, legal and illegal alike.

PG 489, Sec 1308 force taxpayers to pay for Marriage & Family therapy under the public insurance plan.

For those concerned with the damage this plan will do to the medical profession:

Pg 127, lines 1-16 dictates doctors’ payment and therefore income which will reduce what doctors earn and lead to greater shortages of doctors and more rationing of care.

Pg 150, lines 9-13 mandates that employers with an annual payroll between $251K & $400K who does not pay to enroll employees in public insurance option will pay a 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Pg 241, line 6-8 mandates that all doctors receive the same pay, regardless of specialty. This will vastly reduce the number of specialists available in the United States, a common problem where medicine is socialized like Canada.

PG 253, line 10-18 allows the federal government to set the value of doctor’s time, professional judgment.

PG 265, Sec 1131 mandates and controls the productivity of all health care providers including surgeons!

Page 280, Sec 1151 allows the government to penalize hospitals for what is deemed to be preventable readmissions. So instead of being sued for malpractice, the government will be the punitive body when mistakes are made.

Pg 298, lines 9-11 mandates that if a doctor treats a patient during initial admission and that result in a re-admission, the doctor will be subject to federal penalties. Gee do you think that’s going to drive up the cost of malpractice?

Pg 317, lines 13-20 will create prohibitions on ownership and investment in the health service industry for doctors.

Pg 317-318, lines 21-25, and 1-3 will prohibit the expansion of all hospitals.

pg 321, lines 2-13 allows hospitals apply for an exception to the expansion rule but they must seek community input first!

Pg335, lines 16-25, Pg 336-339 mandates the establishment of outcome based health care and insidious idea that actually limits the treatment choices made by patients with their doctors, based upon the patient’s health and condition. This will result in the oldest, weakest and sickest patients being denied treatments simply because the statistics for success in their demographic category are poor! This is a form of health care rationing that will save money at the expense of seniors to help buy insurance for the uninsured, most of whom are young and healthy!

Pg 341, lines 3-9 allows the government to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans and HMO forcing people into the government run public plan.

For those concerned with violations of individual rights in this plan:

Pg 195 officers & employees of the new Health Care Administration will have access to all Americans personal financial records and accounts.

PG 203, line 14-15 actually says that “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it says that.

PG 268, Sec 1141 regulates the rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Pg 379, Sec 1191 mandates the creation of even more bureaucracy in the Telehealth Advisory Committee.

PG 425, lines 4-12 mandates “Advance Care Planning Consultation,” another insidious vehicle to save money by encouraging seniors who are in poor health to be more accepting of death rather than fighting to stay alive and healthy and with their loved ones.

Pg 425, lines 17-19 mandates that all senior patients will be consulted regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney.

PG 425, lines 22-25, 426 lines 1-3 provides an approved list of end of life resources, to help guide seniors about the process of dying!

PG 427, lines 15 mandates program for orders on the end of life, actually giving the government a say in how your life ends!

Pg 429, lines 1-9 dictates the frequency with which an Advance Care Planning Consultant will have to meet with patients as their health deteriorates.

PG 429, lines 10-12 give an Advance Care Planning Consultant the power to order end of life plans for a patient.

Pg 354, Sec 1177 will arbitrarily restrict the enrollment of special needs children and adults.

Pg 429, lines 13-25 will only allow certain doctors, not necessarily your own physician, to write an end of life order.

PG 430, lines 11-15 allows the government to decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

Pg 494-498 allows government to define mental illnesses and what services will be allowed to treat, again rationing this care.

[spot]

Originally Posted by cigar898

If the uninsured in the US go to an ER, they will receive a bill but won't be required to pay it........it's just used for medical billing and tracking by the hospital for expenditures........

If the hospital thinks the person treated has the resources to pay the bill if they're chased? Allow me to express my doubt that you're right. They may well not try to chase the indigent but I'm quite sure they'd go after people capable of liquidating assets to cover the cost. You're telling me that if I were holidaying in the US with no travel insurance and presented to ER after a traffic accident I'd not subsequently have to pay the bill? You can't be serious.

[cigar898]

Originally Posted by spot

If the hospital thinks the person treated has the resources to pay the bill if they're chased? Allow me to express my doubt that you're right. They may well not try to chase the indigent but I'm quite sure they'd go after people capable of liquidating assets to cover the cost. You're telling me that if I were holidaying in the US with no travel insurance and presented to ER after a traffic accident I'd not subsequently have to pay the bill? You can't be serious.

Yes, I am serious. The hospital would try their best to collect but if you were unable to pay......oh well. Two EMTs live nest door to me and we talk about this all the time. They told me of a person who was diabetic and on welfare. Whenever he needed to go to the hospital for his diabetic treament that he couldn't pay for but yet received, he would call for an ambulance because he couldn't afford to pay for the taxi. An average ambulance dispatch costs (median) $500.00 per trip....and that's just to the hospital.
Now when I say they will try to collect, if you have shown the capability to pay (you're on vacation thus can afford it), they will track you as much as they can
and bill you. Keep in mind I'm talking about the uninsured in the US......a traveler on vacation from another country for the most part is different.
Why do you think so many illegal pregnant Mexicans try to make it to the US? So they can give birth in the US in an ER so their child is a US citizen.

[spot]

Originally Posted by cigar898

Yes, I am serious. The hospital would try their best to collect but if you were unable to pay......oh well.

Which is exactly what I just wrote, as opposed to "If the uninsured in the US go to an ER, they will receive a bill but won't be required to pay it........it's just used for medical billing and tracking by the hospital for expenditures". You write X, I say no it's Y and you come back "yes, Y, like I said"? Come on, be reasonable. Read the three posts again. "If the uninsured in the US go to an ER, they will receive a bill but won't be required to pay it........it's just used for medical billing and tracking by the hospital for expenditures" is a complete denial of where you just ended up.

[cigar898]

Originally Posted by spot

Which is exactly what I just wrote, as opposed to "If the uninsured in the US go to an ER, they will receive a bill but won't be required to pay it........it's just used for medical billing and tracking by the hospital for expenditures". You write X, I say no it's Y and you come back "yes, Y, like I said"? Come on, be reasonable. Read the three posts again. "If the uninsured in the US go to an ER, they will receive a bill but won't be required to pay it........it's just used for medical billing and tracking by the hospital for expenditures" is a complete denial of where you just ended up.

Where am I screwing up X and Y? I stated that the uninsured are billed but are not forced to pay. I also stated that if you're in an accident and sent to the ER and for some reason (you stated you're on vacation which indicates that you have an income right?) can't pay right then and there, the hospital will do it's best to collect but they won't send the Collection Agency to your home wherever you're from to kick down the door to collect......the only ones who pay are US citizens where the hospital is able to obtain an address from either your drivers license or ID card and are able to send a bill. When the bill get delinquent (sp?),
the Collection Agency comes calling......will NHS (right?) come after me here in the US if I fail to pay for treatment while in the UK?