Oscar up before the court Friday...

[oscar]

Originally Posted by Clodhopper

Quite possibly they don't, but I was speaking more generally. I don't know if the greater public awareness of the BNP will cause an increase in racial attacks or not, but it will be interesting to see.

If kids are reading tabloids or watching tv, it is not the BNP to blame however much you want to blame them. It is the EDL out on the streets with the UAF assaulting police Officers, not the BNP and I very much doubt, that anyone will see a BNP member in a violent situation now. These kids have to learn this racism from some-where and It doesn't come from the schools. It has to be the parents.

[Clodhopper]

Oh, those poor, oppressed racist fascists.

Do I feel sympathy?

Is the Pope Protestant?

Without the BNP, the UAF (if it existed at all) would be a tiny group no-one had heard of. Your argument is like blaming the Allies for all the dead of WW2, not Hitler.

Don't know much about the EDL. Sound thoroughly dodgy to me though.

Agree that SOME of the racism must come from the parents. Especially if they are BNP supporters. But you'd have to be pretty unobservant not to have noticed the BNP in the last few months.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by G#Gill

It is way past time to bring back the 'birch' for over 16's and the 'cane' for under 16's. These scum only understand physical punishment - something that will cause physical pain. Unfortunately the UK is governed by Europe, and so will never be able to be masters of their own justice system again, until the UK comes out of Europe. My parents always believed in 'cause and effect' - if you did something wrong, and depending on the severity of that wrong, you get hurt! Simple really. Respect for the law flew out of the window when the precious government decided to ban 'caning' in schools. Look what has happened with no ultimate deterrent!

In the animal world, a mother will cuff her youngster if it is 'naughty', and they learn that if they did a certain thing, it would hurt! Oh, I forgot about all the 'do-gooders' and the anti-violence for children brigade. Oh well, just forget I ever typed anything !

This country has sunk into the quagmire anyway...................... I can't be arsed to be bothered about it any more.

Expulsion used to be the ultimate deterrent you do have a point there that schools seem to tolerate abusive pupils-but on the other hand councils prevent pupils being evicted and shutting down the special classes they used to have for problem pupils and expect teachers to put up with behaviour they wouldn't in their private life.

But what a pity for your theory that birching was banned in 1948-long before we became members of the EEC, same with borstals-they ended because they patently weren't working. It was the nasty right wing tories under thatcher that banned corporal punishment in schools not the loony left or the PC crowd . I remember the tawse and the sadistic bastards that liked to use it at every opportunity. Caning always seemed very perverted to me-bend over I'm going to beat you.

Quite rightly now we think there is something wrong with someone that wants to beat children. In the sixties and seventies you had mods and rockers,punks and rockers rioting in the streets-the very same people who now shake their heads at the behaviour of young people nowadays. Knife carrying gangs and street warfare were the norm even more than they are now. Violence at football matches was the norm and everyone thought it was part of the fun. Bullying in school and in the workplace was part of life and you just had to accept it until it was your turn to be the bully. What a wonderfully strange rosie view you have of the past-an idyllic land where everyone was nice to each other and after a damn good thrashing the hooligan was an immediately reformed character. What utter bollocks.

Glad to see you campaigning for the right to beat the **** out of your children. When they grown up and are big enough to hit you back or beat the **** out of their own kids I hope you feel proud of a job well done.

[Betty Boop]

Originally Posted by gmc

Expulsion used to be the ultimate deterrent you do have a point there that schools seem to tolerate abusive pupils-but on the other hand councils prevent pupils being evicted and shutting down the special classes they used to have for problem pupils and expect teachers to put up with behaviour they wouldn't in their private life.

But what a pity for your theory that birching was banned in 1948-long before we became members of the EEC, same with borstals-they ended because they patently weren't working. It was the nasty right wing tories under thatcher that banned corporal punishment in schools not the loony left or the PC crowd . I remember the tawse and the sadistic bastards that liked to use it at every opportunity. Caning always seemed very perverted to me-bend over I'm going to beat you.

Quite rightly now we think there is something wrong with someone that wants to beat children. In the sixties and seventies you had mods and rockers,punks and rockers rioting in the streets-the very same people who now shake their heads at the behaviour of young people nowadays. Knife carrying gangs and street warfare were the norm even more than they are now. Violence at football matches was the norm and everyone thought it was part of the fun. Bullying in school and in the workplace was part of life and you just had to accept it until it was your turn to be the bully. What a wonderfully strange rosie view you have of the past-an idyllic land where everyone was nice to each other and after a damn good thrashing the hooligan was an immediately reformed character. What utter bollocks.

Glad to see you campaigning for the right to beat the **** out of your children. When they grown up and are big enough to hit you back or beat the **** out of their own kids I hope you feel proud of a job well done.

Great post
Every century is marked by a general belief that we are going to the dogs. Just yesterday someone mentioned that things aren't really all that bad nowadays and in fact we are safer now than we have ever been throughout history. It made me stop and think, the history of our land is built on violence and oppression. Our daily lives right now are full of scare mongering and it's become common practice to label all children of certain ages as useless yobs. I'm sick of it, all the children I know are actually nice kids. I can't help but think that if you walk around believing that everyone is bad then that's what you are going to get, I'd rather keep giving people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are generally nice people, that includes all teenagers I come across too!

[Clodhopper]

Originally Posted by gmc

Expulsion used to be the ultimate deterrent you do have a point there that schools seem to tolerate abusive pupils-but on the other hand councils prevent pupils being evicted and shutting down the special classes they used to have for problem pupils and expect teachers to put up with behaviour they wouldn't in their private life.

But what a pity for your theory that birching was banned in 1948-long before we became members of the EEC, same with borstals-they ended because they patently weren't working. It was the nasty right wing tories under thatcher that banned corporal punishment in schools not the loony left or the PC crowd . I remember the tawse and the sadistic bastards that liked to use it at every opportunity. Caning always seemed very perverted to me-bend over I'm going to beat you.

Quite rightly now we think there is something wrong with someone that wants to beat children. In the sixties and seventies you had mods and rockers,punks and rockers rioting in the streets-the very same people who now shake their heads at the behaviour of young people nowadays. Knife carrying gangs and street warfare were the norm even more than they are now. Violence at football matches was the norm and everyone thought it was part of the fun. Bullying in school and in the workplace was part of life and you just had to accept it until it was your turn to be the bully. What a wonderfully strange rosie view you have of the past-an idyllic land where everyone was nice to each other and after a damn good thrashing the hooligan was an immediately reformed character. What utter bollocks.

Glad to see you campaigning for the right to beat the **** out of your children. When they grown up and are big enough to hit you back or beat the **** out of their own kids I hope you feel proud of a job well done.

Hear hear. I know you are suffering atm, GGill. But gmc (and Betty) are right.

[oscar]

Originally Posted by Betty Boop

I can't help but think that if you walk around believing that everyone is bad then that's what you are going to get, I'd rather keep giving people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are generally nice people, that includes all teenagers I come across too!

You are right in that you can not judge all teenagers the same however I don't believe you have ever been in the situations that I have.
For one, ( I can not go into details), our local police are fighting a 50 strong gang at the moment that are coming into our area from other area's purely to assault and mug. it has been a nightmare for them.
For two, on Halloween night, our little Tesco Expess had to shut early which inconvienences everyone in the community. The police got there very quickly and I actually defended them by telling the police they had done nothing wrong. One officer quite rightly said 'To have a gang of approx 30 youths in a doorway of a shop Intimidating residents is totally unacceptable and wrong. I could not disagree with him. I happened to know some of the teenagers and knew they would not harm anyone but look at It from the point of view from an old lady who wanted to come out to get a pint of milk and wouldn't dare due to that gang? That's when It is wrong, when they stop everyday people going about their lives.
Unless you live in some tiny corner of the British Isles that has not heard of Anti-Social behaviour, you have no Idea.
The only reason, I baby sit that take-away weekends for our friends is due to the trouble and It is not the drunks coming out of pubs at midnight.... It is all night long and it is always kids and teenagers who have nothing better to do and no-where to go. Try going into a town at 11 oclock at night and see how many drunk and doped up teenagers there are out on the streets. The parents have no Idea of who they are with, where they are or what they are doing. You can not judge an area going by what you see at midday in a shopping centre.

[Nomad]

Are you writing from the big house?
Whats the food like?
Have you been molested by prison guards?
Whats your convict #?
Orange jump suits or striped?

[oscar]

Originally Posted by gmc

. In the sixties and seventies you had mods and rockers,punks and rockers rioting in the streets-the very same people who now shake their heads at the behaviour of young people nowadays. Knife carrying gangs and street warfare were the norm even more than they are now. Violence at football matches was the norm and everyone thought it was part of the fun. Bullying in school and in the workplace was part of life and you just had to accept it until it was your turn to be the bully. .

Yes, It was like that and I can speak from experience. My first husband was shot with a sawn off shotgun by a rival skinhead gang in the 70's.
The big difference back then, was they only did It to their own and rival gangs. if they were in a rival gang, then they were just as bad. The big difference today is that youths single out anyone totally at random in the street. I have just been reading about a bride beaten up minutes after her wedding by male yobs because she was wearing a goth dress. That's the big difference. Even football violence was against rival violent supporters.
What I see day to day is a total lack of respect for anyone in the street let alone the authorites. Even my First husbands skinhead gang, who were capable of sick violence against each other, would stop to open the door fopr a lady or give up their seat on a bus. They did not spit in the street, swear at residents and hang round in doorways with no direction in life. They still had manners, and ethics. Infact, if they saw a scroat abusing an old lady, chances are, they would kick the shyte out of them. In those days, you incurred the violence If you were part of those gangs. You did not randomely pick on anyone because they happened to pass in the street dressed different to you.

[gmc]

posted by oscar

The only reason, I baby sit that take-away weekends for our friends is due to the trouble and It is not the drunks coming out of pubs at midnight.... It is all night long and it is always kids and teenagers who have nothing better to do and no-where to go. Try going into a town at 11 oclock at night and see how many drunk and doped up teenagers there are out on the streets.

That kind if says it all. Where I live for kids between 12-18 there really is nothing for them to do except hang around. they can't play football cos the school grounds are usually locked or someone calls the police if they get together in a park. Sports clubs etc take money to join which is all very well if your family has that kind of disposable income. There's a skate park but some adults seem to object to kids wasting their time playing. The bmx track has just been turned in to offices so they hang around in gangs and some start causing trouble. Their parents might not actually know what they are doing-it's easy for a kid to get sucked in to things just to be part of a group.

posted by oscar

Yes, It was like that and I can speak from experience. My first husband was shot with a sawn off shotgun by a rival skinhead gang in the 70's.
The big difference back then, was they only did It to their own and rival gangs. if they were in a rival gang, then they were just as bad. The big difference today is that youths single out anyone totally at random in the street. I have just been reading about a bride beaten up minutes after her wedding by male yobs because she was wearing a goth dress. That's the big difference. Even football violence was against rival violent supporters.

Oh here we go-thugs were decent in the old days wouldn't harm a fly unless they asked for it. What were you doing going out with a thug?

[K.Snyder]

Cynicism is only a bad thing when one gives in to their own biased nature. It's what defines stubbornness. Cynicism is fantastically gratifying by virtue of realism. When one is stubborn through cynicism they define themselves as one that wishes to see bad in others. Huge difference.

Besides,..when my cynical nature is proven discerned without question nor bias I'm forever reluctant to ever call one untrustworthy.