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Thread: Encrypted Messaging

  1. #11
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    Re: Encrypted Messaging

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    Is this a valid argument or is it just Scaremongering?
    Opinions?
    I'm ambivalent. Governments have always spied on their own citizens, and always will...till the end of time. The thing I worry about and what worries most men of good will is the amount of spying. You want to take pictures of me driving around town at the streetlights. Fine. You want to listen in to my living room conversations through my TV? Go to Hell.

    Like most people who have nothing to hide, I operate under the general rule, "If you don't want to be spied on, don't be a criminal." That's incredibly naive, I know, but oh well.

    Interestingly, I had a conversation the other day with the Verizon guy:

    Dumb Verizon guy: "Your PIN number matches your last four digits of your SS number. You should change that. It isn't secure.

    Me: "Why isn't that secure?"

    Guy: "Someone could get it use it and set up other lines."

    Me: "Did you just tell me that Verizon can be hacked?"

    Guy: "No."

    Me: "How is the hacker going to know my PIN if he doesn't get it from you?"

    Guy: "Um. He could get it somewhere else."

    Me: "Put a note in my file not to call me until after 3:00 pm anymore."

    Guy: "I can't do that."

    Me: "You have a computer and my file, right? Are you looking at it on the screen?"

    Guy: "Yes."

    Me: "Well just put a message on the file for the next guy not to call until after 3."

    Guy: " I can't do that, you can tell them next time to call you back later."

    Me: "Did you just tell me that you are going to continue to bother me at school, whether I want you to or not?"

    Guy: "No."

    Me: "Are you recording this conversation?

    Guy: "Yes."

    Me: "Then would you please forward this to your supervisor and inform him that your marketing strategy is PISSING ME OFF!"

    *CLICK*

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    Re: Encrypted Messaging

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_ View Post
    I'm ambivalent. Governments have always spied on their own citizens, and always will...till the end of time. The thing I worry about and what worries most men of good will is the amount of spying. You want to take pictures of me driving around town at the streetlights. Fine. You want to listen in to my living room conversations through my TV? Go to Hell.

    Like most people who have nothing to hide, I operate under the general rule, "If you don't want to be spied on, don't be a criminal." That's incredibly naive, I know, but oh well.

    Interestingly, I had a conversation the other day with the Verizon guy:

    Dumb Verizon guy: "Your PIN number matches your last four digits of your SS number. You should change that. It isn't secure.
    What legitimate reason could Verizon possibly have to know your SS number?

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    Re: Encrypted Messaging

    In theory I might be in favour of the right to privacy being revoked while an investigation is going on but I think it should be returned when the conviction happens or the sentence is completed (not sure).

    But I don't go with this,"If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" thing. It's just not true. Sadly, there are corrupt police and government officials in all countries except possibly Antarctica and with a partner from Chile who grew up under Pinochet I'm very aware that the innocent suffer most in corrupt states.
    Last edited by Clodhopper; 03-31-2017 at 09:21 AM. Reason: missing words
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    Re: Encrypted Messaging

    Quote Originally Posted by minks View Post
    you committed a crime you loose your rights.
    Perhaps my wording is incorrect, you are convicted of a crime, you loose your rights. Authorities can look further into your activities and dig deeper.
    Not suspected of doing a crime. Gosh then we will all be bugged.
    It's a Catch 22 situation then. You lose your rights to privacy once convicted of committing a crime. However, in order to convict you of committing that crime you first need to have those supposed rights to privacy breached. Innocent until proven guilty, remember.

    In my opinion authorites should have full access to encrypted files - after following due procedure to obtain legitimate warrants, of course, and in order to attain those warrants should have to demonstrate reasonable cause for suspicion.

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    Re: Encrypted Messaging

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    In my opinion authorites should have full access to encrypted files - after following due procedure to obtain legitimate warrants
    The person we're discussing was shot dead before he could be questioned.

    How would you like the authorities to have full access to encrypted files in this instance?
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    Re: Encrypted Messaging

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    The person we're discussing was shot dead before he could be questioned.

    How would you like the authorities to have full access to encrypted files in this instance?
    I would consider his actions to be classed as "Reasonable Cause".

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    Re: Encrypted Messaging

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    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    I would consider his actions to be classed as "Reasonable Cause".
    Okay - so they have "Reasonable Cause" because he mounted the pavement on Westminster Bridge?

    Two minutes later he's dead. And you can't ask a dead guy what the password is. He's dead already.

    You couldn't plant a keystroke logger on his phone earlier, because he wasn't a suspect until he reached Westminster Bridge?

    Are you happy with the intelligence services putting keystroke loggers on every phone in every Carphone Warehouse in the country, just in case, for next time? What's the "Reasonable Cause"? Or is that a reasonable response - to put a keystroke logger on every phone. If you do, the bad guys will just disable it before they use the phone because they'll know it's there on every phone on sale, and how to disable it. And if you don't bug every phone in creation, even if he'd become a suspect last Christmas and you'd bugged him back then, he'd just step into a Carphone Warehouse and pick up a handset the day before reaching Westminster Bridge and do his secret texting or phone calling on that unbugged phone instead.

    I've seen no practical answer so far.

    I can offer a practical answer, if anybody would like one - disable the rampaging knife-wielding terrorist non-lethally instead of shooting him in the chest, because then you can ask him for the password to his phone. Killing terrorists is extremely counter-productive because then you can't expose what he knows to public examination. And we're back to the Bin Laden puzzle - why on earth was bin Laden deliberately executed instead of arrested for questioning.

    Stop killing terrorists. They're criminals. They're supposed to be arrested with the bare minimum of necessary force. We do not live in a video game.
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    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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