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Thread: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

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    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Yes their bigotry and hatred echo down through the centuries - not to mention their mysogyny. God cleared the way for them by wiping out the indigenous peoples with disease had it not been for that who knows how things might have turned out.

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    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    Escaping persecution to, in turn, become the persecutors.
    Go on, I still haven't been told - what is this "persecution" from which they fled to America? Perhaps you could justify your use of the word "persecution" with examples?
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    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Go on, I still haven't been told - what is this "persecution" from which they fled to America? Perhaps you could justify your use of the word "persecution" with examples?
    As I understood it, they were Catholics who refused to accept the Church of England & were, therefore considered unlawful & at risk of severe penalties accordingly.

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    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    As I understood it, they were Catholics who refused to accept the Church of England & were, therefore considered unlawful & at risk of severe penalties accordingly.
    Jesus. Tell that to a Puritan!

    The bit about "with examples" was particularly important because I have no idea what EVENTS you're describing. Even were what you say true, being "at risk of" is not persecution.

    What you describe definitely happened to Catholics, yes, but Puritans were at the opposite end of the religious spectrum.

    Some Quakers were jailed. Was anyone on the Mayflower a Quaker?
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    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    As I understood it, they were Catholics who refused to accept the Church of England & were, therefore considered unlawful & at risk of severe penalties accordingly.
    So nothins' changed then? Lol

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    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    I'll have a try this persecution thing, since nobody else is addressing it.

    The Pilgrim Fathers sailed to America on board the Mayflower, we're agreed so far?

    None of the crew were Puritans as far as I'm aware, do correct me if I'm wrong.

    Two thirds of the passengers were similarly not Puritans. They were referred to by the remaining third, who were Puritans, as "The Strangers".

    The Puritans were all of them English expatriates living in Leiden in the Netherlands. They went from the Netherlands to America because their children were growing up more Dutch than English and the Puritans wanted a place where they, the Puritans, set the rules and constituted the society and weren't Dutch.

    It was the Puritans who commissioned the voyage, the Mayflower set sail with them for England to pick up supplies and The Strangers, most of whom were recruited to be the Lower Class and do the farming work.

    I can't see any persecution at all so far.

    How am I doing, historically? What bit have I missed?

    Oh - Nobody, absolutely nobody, on the Mayflower, was a Catholic, no Quaker arrived in America for the next thirty years and when they arrived they were - guess what - persecuted by the Puritans:
    In 1657 a group of Quakers from England landed in New Amsterdam. One of them, Robert Hodgson, preached to large crowds of people. He was arrested, imprisoned, and flogged. Governor Peter Stuyvesant issued a harsh ordinance, punishable by fine and imprisonment, against anyone found guilty of harboring Quakers.
    Intransigent bastards, Puritans. Why anyone likes them beats me.
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    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    I've seen somewhere suggestions that the complete submission to the Will of God that they practised as part of their faith helped them cope with the high casualty rates in the early years and keep going - it's all God testing his Chosen people.

    We've got the DUP, of course...
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    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    I've seen somewhere suggestions that the complete submission to the Will of God that they practised as part of their faith helped them cope with the high casualty rates in the early years and keep going - it's all God testing his Chosen people.
    I'd be quite happy for God (were there a God) to persecute the Puritans, I'd probably pay for a ticket in the stalls and stone a few myself. What I have still not seen, and asked to see several times, and don't for one minute believe happened, is any instances of the Puritans - those on the Mayflower, specifically, the ones called The Pilgrim Fathers - fleeing "Persecution". Which among them was persecuted and what did the persecution consist of? They absolutely and undoubtedly persecuted others - they were drunk on power by the time they ran colonies, much like the Stasi. Look at what happened in Salem, for instance. But I claim, and I'd love to be challenged on it here in this thread, that no Mayflower Puritan was persecuted by anybody ever. Come on anyone, show me wrong.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._the_New_World gives a taste of what these demented Mayflower Puritans were like when it came to imposing their partisan line on Real Christians. Floggings, executions, the works.

    We are, after all, discussing The "Real Thanksgiving Story" in this thread. Note the "Real" bit. What persecution, Frodo? You're the one who claimed they were persecuted.
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    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I'd be quite happy for God (were there a God) to persecute the Puritans, I'd probably pay for a ticket in the stalls and stone a few myself. What I have still not seen, and asked to see several times, and don't for one minute believe happened, is any instances of the Puritans - those on the Mayflower, specifically, the ones called The Pilgrim Fathers - fleeing "Persecution". Which among them was persecuted and what did the persecution consist of? They absolutely and undoubtedly persecuted others - they were drunk on power by the time they ran colonies, much like the Stasi. Look at what happened in Salem, for instance. But I claim, and I'd love to be challenged on it here in this thread, that no Mayflower Puritan was persecuted by anybody ever. Come on anyone, show me wrong.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._the_New_World gives a taste of what these demented Mayflower Puritans were like when it came to imposing their partisan line on Real Christians. Floggings, executions, the works.

    We are, after all, discussing The "Real Thanksgiving Story" in this thread. Note the "Real" bit. What persecution, Frodo? You're the one who claimed they were persecuted.
    Wasn't it suggested you read Helter Skelter?

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    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahso! View Post
    Wasn't it suggested you read Helter Skelter?
    Not me. Tude, if I recall.
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    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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