Make these ads go away.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 46

Thread: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    is just wandrin
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    Wandrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Today?
    Posts
    1,576
    Local Date
    12-12-2017
    Local Time
    05:45 PM
    Points
    6,352
    Gifts Balloons Cake Gift

    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I'll have a try this persecution thing, since nobody else is addressing it.

    The Pilgrim Fathers sailed to America on board the Mayflower, we're agreed so far?

    None of the crew were Puritans as far as I'm aware, do correct me if I'm wrong.

    Two thirds of the passengers were similarly not Puritans. They were referred to by the remaining third, who were Puritans, as "The Strangers".

    The Puritans were all of them English expatriates living in Leiden in the Netherlands. They went from the Netherlands to America because their children were growing up more Dutch than English and the Puritans wanted a place where they, the Puritans, set the rules and constituted the society and weren't Dutch.

    It was the Puritans who commissioned the voyage, the Mayflower set sail with them for England to pick up supplies and The Strangers, most of whom were recruited to be the Lower Class and do the farming work.

    I can't see any persecution at all so far.

    How am I doing, historically? What bit have I missed?

    Oh - Nobody, absolutely nobody, on the Mayflower, was a Catholic, no Quaker arrived in America for the next thirty years and when they arrived they were - guess what - persecuted by the Puritans:
    In 1657 a group of Quakers from England landed in New Amsterdam. One of them, Robert Hodgson, preached to large crowds of people. He was arrested, imprisoned, and flogged. Governor Peter Stuyvesant issued a harsh ordinance, punishable by fine and imprisonment, against anyone found guilty of harboring Quakers.
    Intransigent bastards, Puritans. Why anyone likes them beats me.
    I see some parallels between the Puritans’ claims of persecution and what I hear/see from some groups in the US now. Some of the current claims of persecution of Christians in the US (and there are many) bemoan the fact that they cannot demand that there be prayer in public schools or teach their brand of religion there. Others complain that they cannot overtly discriminate against gay people in housing or business or that they cannot remove women’s health coverage from employee insurance plans. A couple of complaints were that they could not erect giant crosses on public land. Some were the horror that other religions were treated equally.

    The unifying factor in these complaints is the frustration that their narrow religious beliefs do not supersede US law and the beliefs of others. They call it “persecution”.

  2. #22
    Supporting Member
    is risen
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    34,111
    Local Date
    12-13-2017
    Local Time
    01:45 AM
    Points
    53,123
    Gifts Heart Car Beer Beer Burger Cake Ban Hammer Beer

    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    That's eye-opening. I've heard of Doublespeak, this sounds very like it.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    is just wandrin
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    Wandrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Today?
    Posts
    1,576
    Local Date
    12-12-2017
    Local Time
    05:45 PM
    Points
    6,352
    Gifts Balloons Cake Gift

    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Another interesting tidbit about the Puritans is that they changed their doctrine once they had their own colony and their religious leaders were now the sole employer, police, judges, school administrators, etc. In England their doctrine was that after an individual’s big salvation experience they knew that they would be going to heaven when they die. After operating their colony for awhile they made an important change, removing that certainty. An individual would now be evaluated at their moment of death -- did they work hard for their employer? follow all of the rules set by their leaders?

  4. #24
    Supporting Member
    is risen
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    34,111
    Local Date
    12-13-2017
    Local Time
    01:45 AM
    Points
    53,123
    Gifts Heart Car Beer Beer Burger Cake Ban Hammer Beer

    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    I'll put a question, then. If the Mayflower Puritans and their subsequent followers were blatant scoundrels - and I have no doubt at all that they were - why is Thanksgiving so universally observed these days? Is it possible to celebrate the arrival of the Mayflower without admiring the intolerant religious bigotry and repression of the following hundred years? How do you twist your head that far?

    I'm not surprised that the framers of the Constitution had, by 1789, rejected God or his representatives on Earth as any sort of arbiter in the country they were forging.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  5. #25
    Proudly humble
    is Lost in the Ozone, again.
     
    I am:
    Cool
     
    LarsMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    usually on the road to somewhere.
    Posts
    9,592
    Local Date
    12-12-2017
    Local Time
    08:45 PM
    Points
    36,699
    Gifts Beer Balloons Gift Car Beer

    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I'll put a question, then. If the Mayflower Puritans and their subsequent followers were blatant scoundrels - and I have no doubt at all that they were - why is Thanksgiving so universally observed these days? Is it possible to celebrate the arrival of the Mayflower without admiring the intolerant religious bigotry and repression of the following hundred years? How do you twist your head that far?

    I'm not surprised that the framers of the Constitution had, by 1789, rejected God or his representatives on Earth as any sort of arbiter in the country they were forging.
    Well, there ya go. Marketing is everything. Go back to XFrod's statement. The party line for at least the last couple of centuries was exactly as he said. They came to the New World to escape religious persecution, settled in and made friends with their red neighbors who taught them how to farm and then they threw a big feast, Turkey and Dressing and all.
    It was all Norman Rockwell for the next hundred or so years until Ol' George and his gang threw your lot out and wrote the Constitution.
    Then the story continued with all that other stuff, like Betsy Ross, and Dolly Madison, and the DoughBoys, and how we came over there to save your butts from the Kaiser and the Jolly old Adolf, and we led the world until that Kenyan guy took over and screwed everything up.

    Now King Donald is here to save the day, and you all need to show some respect.

    It's gonna be Great.
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so."
    - Anonymous

  6. #26
    Zero mod strikes. HAH!!!
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Crazy
     
    YZGI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Middle America
    Posts
    11,444
    Local Date
    12-12-2017
    Local Time
    07:45 PM
    Points
    5,969
    Gifts Beer Naughty Mag Beer

    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Thanksgiving is the same as the rest of the "holidays". Made up, to sell something.

  7. #27
    Supporting Member
    is risen
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    34,111
    Local Date
    12-13-2017
    Local Time
    01:45 AM
    Points
    53,123
    Gifts Heart Car Beer Beer Burger Cake Ban Hammer Beer

    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by YZGI View Post
    Thanksgiving is the same as the rest of the "holidays". Made up, to sell something.
    Here's a puzzler for you - which country do you suppose won the first Baseball World Championship?
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  8. #28
    Zero mod strikes. HAH!!!
    This user has no status.
     
    I am:
    Crazy
     
    YZGI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Middle America
    Posts
    11,444
    Local Date
    12-12-2017
    Local Time
    07:45 PM
    Points
    5,969
    Gifts Beer Naughty Mag Beer

    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Here's a puzzler for you - which country do you suppose won the first Baseball World Championship?
    No idea, but since you asked the question I'll go with Cuba.

  9. #29
    Supporting Member
    is risen
     
    I am:
    Happy
     
    spot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brigstow
    Posts
    34,111
    Local Date
    12-13-2017
    Local Time
    01:45 AM
    Points
    53,123
    Gifts Heart Car Beer Beer Burger Cake Ban Hammer Beer

    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Quote Originally Posted by YZGI View Post
    No idea, but since you asked the question I'll go with Cuba.
    "The Baseball World Cup was an international tournament in which national baseball teams from around the world competed. It was sanctioned by the International Baseball Federation (IBAF). Along with the World Baseball Classic, it was one of two active tournaments considered by the IBAF to be a major world championship".

    First played, 1938.

    World Champions: Great Britain.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    is yep.........Me too
     
    I am:
    Awesome
     
    magentaflame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Vic Aus
    Posts
    1,687
    Local Date
    12-13-2017
    Local Time
    12:45 PM
    Points
    9,130

    Re: The "Real Thanksgiving Story"

    Register to remove this ad.
    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    Well, there ya go. Marketing is everything. Go back to XFrod's statement. The party line for at least the last couple of centuries was exactly as he said. They came to the New World to escape religious persecution, settled in and made friends with their red neighbors who taught them how to farm and then they threw a big feast, Turkey and Dressing and all.
    It was all Norman Rockwell for the next hundred or so years until Ol' George and his gang threw your lot out and wrote the Constitution.
    Then the story continued with all that other stuff, like Betsy Ross, and Dolly Madison, and the DoughBoys, and how we came over there to save your butts from the Kaiser and the Jolly old Adolf, and we led the world until that Kenyan guy took over and screwed everything up.

    Now King Donald is here to save the day, and you all need to show some respect.

    It's gonna be Great.
    No.....it's going to be Donald Great!....nobody can do Great like him . he's the best at great! Believe me ....everything is going to be great!


    So you mean that kind of great???

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.5.2