Religious Conversion

[gmc]

Originally Posted by Galbally

Yes it seems Tony has joined the club now, well first I will say welcome, second get down to confession, and third you will probably need to go to confession more than once Tony.

I don't really see what the big deal is to be honest, so what if he has converted to Catholicism? I think its interesting that even in the 21st century its very difficult for a senior public servant in Britain to admit to being a catholic, I think the media coverage kinda speaks volumes about the anti-Catholic thing that still goes on in Britain, even though the vast majority of people are basically secular. Its being treated like some big deal that the ex-Prime-Minister has converted to the religion that everyone knows he has come to believe in over the last 10 years, shock horror. God I wonder what would happen if Prince Charles converted, then there would really be a bit of a storm wouldn't there? It just goes to show that religion is not a dead issue at all, we all just ignore it in this part of the world nowadays.

I do understand though why people would think it odd that the person who sent Britain into Iraq now promotes himself as a man of peace and now a Catholic convert, but people are complicated and Blair is a complex individual. But he is entitled to freedom of religion so really, I don't see there being much of an issue, and their shouldn't be a issue about a Prime Minister being a Catholic, why should it matter to the Church of England or the Democratic Unionist Party whether the Prime Minister of the U.K. is a Catholic unless they think that senior positions in the British State are only for protestants as they are the only people that are trustworthy? A very strange state of affairs indeed.

It's a big issue to some people.

I don't see there being much of an issue, and their shouldn't be a issue about a Prime Minister being a Catholic, why should it matter to the Church of England or the Democratic Unionist Party whether the Prime Minister of the U.K. is a Catholic unless they think that senior positions in the British State are only for protestants as they are the only people that are trustworthy? A very strange state of affairs indeed.

Goes right to the hear of the sectarian issue does it not. Who rules supreme, the king and his government with people free to worship as they wish or the pope in rome and the catholic church forcing everyone to worship as they do. More to the point do you want a politician making decisions based on faith, particularly when it comes to declaring war on muslims?

I don't think it should be an issue but there are always those on both sides that want to make it one and drag up old conflicts. Look at the stooshie about the anglican church having woman priests with many switching to Catholicism in protest. It's an obsession with having things just so that almost borders on insanity. It's a conflict that should be left in the past. IMO.

On the other hand he was appointing anglican bishops not to mention the religious supremacy so for that reason alone him being a catholic would have been a major issue. There are also the religious overtones in the oath of allegiance to the queen as head of the anglican church-that gerry adams and martin mcguinness objected to. Maybe he should have been more honest but it should not be a surprise he was not.

I have seen it suggested that the civil war and the ensuing religious rule by the puritans and later religious wars have burned a deep suspicion of those who profess a deep religious belief in to the british psyche. Certainly had he done this while in office I think it would have been a major issue. Would the Northern Ireland talks have been as successful? Who knows.

posted by galbally

And now he is a Catholic, and everyone knows that Catholics do it better.

Perhaps but they're not allowed to enjoy it-or is that the wee frees

[Galbally]

Originally Posted by gmc

It's a big issue to some people.



Goes right to the hear of the sectarian issue does it not. Who rules supreme, the king and his government with people free to worship as they wish or the pope in rome and the catholic church forcing everyone to worship as they do. More to the point do you want a politician making decisions based on faith, particularly when it comes to declaring war on muslims?

I don't think it should be an issue but there are always those on both sides that want to make it one and drag up old conflicts. Look at the stooshie about the anglican church having woman priests with many switching to Catholicism in protest. It's an obsession with having things just so that almost borders on insanity. It's a conflict that should be left in the past. IMO.

On the other hand he was appointing anglican bishops not to mention the religious supremacy so for that reason alone him being a catholic would have been a major issue. There are also the religious overtones in the oath of allegiance to the queen as head of the anglican church-that gerry adams and martin mcguinness objected to. Maybe he should have been more honest but it should not be a surprise he was not.

I have seen it suggested that the civil war and the ensuing religious rule by the puritans and later religious wars have burned a deep suspicion of those who profess a deep religious belief in to the british psyche. Certainly had he done this while in office I think it would have been a major issue. Would the Northern Ireland talks have been as successful? Who knows.

posted by galbally


Perhaps but they're not allowed to enjoy it-or is that the wee frees

I think you should think long and hard about this continuing anti-Catholic thing in the British state, seeing as a large part of the population of England and Wales are Catholic, (not to mention British Muslims and Hindus) its absurd that in the 21st century there should still be an government endorsed established, protestant Church of England that creates a situation that bars Catholics particularly from the Monarchy and it seems still positions of power such as Prime Minister, its purely sectarian, plain and simple. The message is, even 400 years after the civil war that British Catholics are somehow not fully British and can't be trusted with high office.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by Galbally

I think you should think long and hard about this continuing anti-Catholic thing in the British state, seeing as a large part of the population of England and Wales are Catholic, (not to mention British Muslims and Hindus) its absurd that in the 21st century there should still be an government endorsed established, protestant Church of England that creates a situation that bars Catholics particularly from the Monarchy and it seems still positions of power such as Prime Minister, its purely sectarian, plain and simple. The message is, even 400 years after the civil war that British Catholics are somehow not fully British and can't be trusted with high office.

Speaking as a former free church of scotland draftee now living in the heart of sectarian country I couldn't agree with you more. Although ever since sonmebody threw a stool at a bishop up here we have had nothing to do with the church of england as a state church.

I know bigots from both sides of the divide-on many levels will educated thinking, likeable, liberal minded individuals then it's as if a switch goes. On an intellectual level I can understand the reasons for the animosity and the importance of sectarian conflict to the way the UK developed. it's one of those perennial questions-had you been alive at the time what would you have done? whose side would you have been on- that you can't really answer from a 21st century perspective as you be standing there saying hang on this is silly let's talk about it.

We need to keep our society secular. It's the only way to keep the peace. Any religious political parties here would very rapidly become sectarian. In fact there was a christian party standing but it wasn't for all Christians if you get my drift. Religious leaders also need to keep out of politics and not try and tell parishioners how to vote. Can't stop them I suppose but religion of any kind (as opposed to faith) can be immensely destructive when they start believing and acting as if they and only they have the moral right of things.

Every now and then sectarianism is brought home. Last time our local football team played rangers the place was invaded with hordes of supporters. I saw one family parents with a little three year old boy who was wandering along singing the sash, proud parents smiling fondly. From their perspective they're teaching him his heritage and part of his history he needs to know about but at that age it's also teaching a blind bigotry that's going to take some going to change.

My apologies to RG for going off topic again!

[lemon_and_mint]

I am going to go a little off topic here but i would be interested in your - polite views.

As a white middle class protestant British woman I have never really been interested in religion.However I have foudn myself by coincidence coming frequently into prolonged contact with muslims, with whom i have had discussions.
I believe that they all are entitled to their opinions although some may be offensive to other people.

Some of these have been "radical" and have heldd views on 9/11 which most people would not subscribe to.Some of these have been of the opinion that Islam is a peaceloving religion and that the actions of the few radicals do not reflect reality.

Those who observe all the religious rituals, I admire for their faith - I have had all the prayers explained to me and have even taken part in some parts of the rituals.I say rituals, that may be the wrong word, i mean some actions which are routinely part of that religion.

I continue to learn more and have seriously thought about converting to islam, although this would be extremely unpopular within my social circle in the current british terror climate.However putting aside the terror aspect, the fundamental beliefs and way in which muslims are meant to behave according to their beliefs attracts me as a way of life i could subscribe to.Although I seriously doubt that I would ever have the amount of faith required to follow every day those prayers times for the rest of my life.Although i wouldnt know, maybe someone faith becomes more, the more they practice?

Does anyone have any views on this?

[Patrick]

I almost became a Mormon to marry a young lady once.

It was right after high school. When we started our relationship she was Catholic like me. The best school that she applied to and accepted her with a scholarship was BYU. Our plan was for me to join the Air Force Reserve and work it out to have my duty station as close as possible to Provo as possible.

After I got out of basic I called to tell her I'd be home for Christmas. She then told me I had to be become a Mormon for us to marry because she had converted. It was a close thing but I couldn't do it.

I still have the matching King James Bible and Book of Mormon set she sent me. I keep them as reminder to always be true to myself.

[Ted]

gmc

An excellent post. Religion has no part in politics.

Shalom
Ted

[cars]

Tony may have converted because he wants to go to heaven in the end.
And he had heard that the Catholics think they're the only ones going to be there !!!

(So as not to derail this thread, that could be a topic for the religious forum! Will all religions go to heaven in the end? If not which ones will?)

[Ted]

cars

Why, mine of course. LOL

Shalom
Ted

[Ted]

I just couldn't pass that one up. LOL

Shalom
Ted

[RedGlitter]

Originally Posted by cars

(So as not to derail this thread, that could be a topic for the religious forum! Will all religions go to heaven in the end? If not which ones will?)

I think any religion that is not evil (ie: doesn't blow people up upon God's orders) will go to Heaven or whatever afterlife there is. I don't believe in a chosen few.

You guys are very nice, btw. But you don't have to apologize for or worry about going off topic in any of my threads, cause that's just how a good conversation goes!