Religious Conversion

[RedGlitter]

I was just reading at CNN.com that Tony Blair has converted to Catholicism.
I don't remember ever having this discussion before so I thought I'd toss it out.

What's your feeling on conversion? Specifically, conversion brought on by marriage or a reason other than a personal change of heart?]

My feeling is that it's a crock. No offense intended but that's the best way I can put it. While I think there's room for growth and change in a faith, I just don't see how a person can "be" of one faith and then completely cash in those values and beliefs for something new. I especially have a problem with it when it's required or brought on by marriage. A cousin of mine who grew up Lutheran converted to Mormonism so she could marry her husband. They had a wedding at the Temple in Utah and she is very happy so I have an easier time accepting it now, but we truly thought she sold out her own beliefs and were upset about it for a long time especially after she had said she'd never do such a thing. To go from "I believe this" to "Oh I believe this other thing now" and to embrace that new faith as your own newly found personal identity smacks of fraud to me. That's my 50 cents. What is yours?

[gmc]

Originally Posted by RedGlitter

I was just reading at CNN.com that Tony Blair has converted to Catholicism.
I don't remember ever having this discussion before so I thought I'd toss it out.

What's your feeling on conversion? Specifically, conversion brought on by marriage or a reason other than a personal change of heart?]

My feeling is that it's a crock. No offense intended but that's the best way I can put it. While I think there's room for growth and change in a faith, I just don't see how a person can "be" of one faith and then completely cash in those values and beliefs for something new. I especially have a problem with it when it's required or brought on by marriage. A cousin of mine who grew up Lutheran converted to Mormonism so she could marry her husband. They had a wedding at the Temple in Utah and she is very happy so I have an easier time accepting it now, but we truly thought she sold out her own beliefs and were upset about it for a long time especially after she had said she'd never do such a thing. To go from "I believe this" to "Oh I believe this other thing now" and to embrace that new faith as your own newly found personal identity smacks of fraud to me. That's my 50 cents. What is yours?

I notice he waited till he was no longer prime minister though there were rumours he would convert. If he'd come out with that nonsense about god will judge if he did he right thing in Iraq or even hinted his religion influenced his decision in any way at the beginning of it all there would have (IMO) been outrage. Never mind he was appointing anglican bishops or dealing with Northern ireland where it would have been a major issue.Maybe some of the labour MP's would have had the guts to do the right thing and stand up to the new labour machine. I'm not religious but if I was I like to think there is a special hell for lying hypocrites like him. Too many use religion as a sop for acts they know are wrong or simply so they don't have to think for themselves and take responsibility.

Kind of shows in the way he acted-do something dishonest, tell lies to get your own way, apologise when caught and that will be OK then and people will forgive you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7157409.stm

And earlier this year, he told the BBC that he had avoided talking about his religious views while in office for fear of being labelled "a nutter".

Most people think that anyway. If he hadn't been craft and said he was going to go the labour MP's would have turfed him out rather than the dead certainty of losing the next election.

As to religious conversion generally I think it's up to each to follow their conscience. My wife and I are different religions-well neither of us are believers any more-but I wouldn't have expected her to convert nor she me which is one reason we had a civil service. Bothered my mother but she changed her mind when told she didn't have to come.

I just don't see how a person can "be" of one faith and then completely cash in those values and beliefs for something new.

Why not? if they switch from one monotheistic religion to another it's not as though they are not worshipping a different god is it?

many can walk away from religion when they learn to think for themselves, By the same token just as Many can discover a religion that works for them. (or a political philosophy come to that)

Just looked over that-sorry but I can't stand Tony Blair. This being the Uk I can call the former prime minister a lying two faced hypocritical bastard without being called unpatriotic.

[Sheryl]

Why can't a person change? It's not a crock! He was Christian before, he's still a Christian now. A person's religion is a personal thing, that other's should not judge.

[RedGlitter]

Originally Posted by Sheryl

Why can't a person change? It's not a crock! He was Christian before, he's still a Christian now. A person's religion is a personal thing, that other's should not judge.

Wait Sheryl, I'm not talking specifically about Blair- I only mentioned him because his story put the thought into my head. I'm talking in general.
You seem offended? Is it because I said I thought it was a crock? That's my own view, not something that I said to make anyone mad. I agree religion is personal and for the most part we shouldn't judge but how about for the sake of conversation?

You ask why can't a person change, obviously they can but all I'm saying is that as a fairly religious person, I tend to see one's religious beliefs sort of like a marriage- as an institution you don't give up on without very good reason. I don't understand how say, one can be of a certain faith and then decide they believe something else.

If I can use my cousin again as an example, she had very specific and firm beliefs as a Lutheran. She grew up as one and even in adulthood she held to it so it must have had something to offer her. Then she met Jack and he said "I can't marry you unless you convert" so she did. She took on everything the LDS holds sacred; their God, their tenets, their teachings, all of it and claimed it for her own just so she could "be" a Mormon too. So Jack would/could marry her. I thought it was absolutely fake and that's why I think it's wrong. A person's faith is (or should be) deeply personal, something between them and their God. Something real and sacred. How real and sacred can it be when you renounce it and take on another one?
That's what I'm trying to say.
I know it's easy to get up in arms over religious talks, but I'm sorry I seem to have offended you.

[Sheryl]

No you didn't offend me. Your cousin for example, you do not know if she prayed over her dilemma, or if she went into the Mormon religion with out thinking it through. So you judged by what you saw at the time.

I grew up Assembly of God, as I grew older certain aspects of the church I didn't agree with. So I changed to Baptist. I don't always agree with their teachings, but I've come to realize that it's up to me and my relationship with God, not me, the Church and God. That make sense?

But the point I was trying to make is folks may change churches, but doesn't mean they changed faiths. Or at least not in Christianity. That's how I see it anyhow.

[Galbally]

Yes it seems Tony has joined the club now, well first I will say welcome, second get down to confession, and third you will probably need to go to confession more than once Tony.

I don't really see what the big deal is to be honest, so what if he has converted to Catholicism? I think its interesting that even in the 21st century its very difficult for a senior public servant in Britain to admit to being a catholic, I think the media coverage kinda speaks volumes about the anti-Catholic thing that still goes on in Britain, even though the vast majority of people are basically secular. Its being treated like some big deal that the ex-Prime-Minister has converted to the religion that everyone knows he has come to believe in over the last 10 years, shock horror. God I wonder what would happen if Prince Charles converted, then there would really be a bit of a storm wouldn't there? It just goes to show that religion is not a dead issue at all, we all just ignore it in this part of the world nowadays.

I do understand though why people would think it odd that the person who sent Britain into Iraq now promotes himself as a man of peace and now a Catholic convert, but people are complicated and Blair is a complex individual. But he is entitled to freedom of religion so really, I don't see there being much of an issue, and their shouldn't be a issue about a Prime Minister being a Catholic, why should it matter to the Church of England or the Democratic Unionist Party whether the Prime Minister of the U.K. is a Catholic unless they think that senior positions in the British State are only for protestants as they are the only people that are trustworthy? A very strange state of affairs indeed.

[RedGlitter]

Originally Posted by Sheryl

No you didn't offend me. Your cousin for example, you do not know if she prayed over her dilemma, or if she went into the Mormon religion with out thinking it through. So you judged by what you saw at the time.

That may be partially true as you can't know what is in someone's head but with my cousin, she was in her early 20s and starry eyed about getting married and she admitted she was doing it to get Jack. At the time I lost some respect for her over it because I thought she was a fake. As she got older though, she seemed to have warmed up to the LDS ways and her life seems to be good now so I'm cool with her once again.

I grew up Assembly of God, as I grew older certain aspects of the church I didn't agree with. So I changed to Baptist. I don't always agree with their teachings, but I've come to realize that it's up to me and my relationship with God, not me, the Church and God. That make sense?

Yes, it makes perfect sense to me.

But the point I was trying to make is folks may change churches, but doesn't mean they changed faiths. Or at least not in Christianity. That's how I see it anyhow.

Thanks for explaining that; it's something I can appreciate. Thanks for taking the time to reply too. And I'm glad you weren't offended earlier.

[Snooze]

Kind of off topic, but I think Tony Blair is very attractive.

[Galbally]

Originally Posted by Snooze

Kind of off topic, but I think Tony Blair is very attractive.

And now he is a Catholic, and everyone knows that Catholics do it better.

[Ted]

Tony Blair hasn't changed his faith. He has simply gone from one Christian church to another.

He rightly refused to talk religion while in office. Who would want it otherwise?

Shalom
Ted