Plenty

Originally Posted by Ted

jester

If a child is born and raised in a pig pen he may be happy with that. Is it morally right that you or I can live comfortably and not show the child of the pig pen a better life? Is it morally right?

Shalom
Ted

Ive met folks that live in grass huts and eat small fowl and roots and never knew they were 'poor', to them they have thier needs met and are fine. Morality had nothing to do with it.

[theia]

Originally Posted by Jester

Ive met folks that live in grass huts and eat small fowl and roots and never knew they were 'poor', to them they have thier needs met and are fine. Morality had nothing to do with it.

Excellent point, Jester and it has made me think...

At present I have sufficient to pay my rent, feed myself, run a car etc. But, like everyone, however wealthy or poor, I don't know what the future will bring...so there is no security in what I possess or don't possess. The only "real" security I feel is when I have one of those moments when I know in my heart that "all is well." And these moments have nothing to do with material possessions.

Originally Posted by theia

Excellent point, Jester and it has made me think...

At present I have sufficient to pay my rent, feed myself, run a car etc. But, like everyone, however wealthy or poor, I don't know what the future will bring...so there is no security in what I possess or don't possess. The only "real" security I feel is when I have one of those moments when I know in my heart that "all is well." And these moments have nothing to do with material possessions.

Ive alwasy had enough, food, clothing, a roof over my head etc. I had to work for it, or my parents did, and thats been the primary method of me having all those things.

These business dealings Ive been in the past 5 years have been exceptionally lucrative, Ive made more money in 5 years than I did in 20 years in the service. Im shocked to say that I am a wealthy man as of late. But I also feel an obligation to give back, and in doing so I think that helps others meet thier basic needs as well.

I get what Ted is trying to say in this thread, Im just not sure there is a way to force people to give up what they have. And if we force folsk to do it wheres the blessing in that, who wants to recive stuff from a grudgeful reluctant person?

Originally Posted by Jester

Ive alwasy had enough, food, clothing, a roof over my head etc. I had to work for it, or my parents did, and thats been the primary method of me having all those things.

These business dealings Ive been in the past 5 years have been exceptionally lucrative, Ive made more money in 5 years than I did in 20 years in the service. Im shocked to say that I am a wealthy man as of late. But I also feel an obligation to give back, and in doing so I think that helps others meet thier basic needs as well.

I get what Ted is trying to say in this thread, Im just not sure there is a way to force people to give up what they have. And if we force folsk to do it wheres the blessing in that, who wants to recive stuff from a grudgeful reluctant person?

Those that have no desire to earn it on their own and play on the 'guilt' of others.

Originally Posted by JAB

Those that have no desire to earn it on their own and play on the 'guilt' of others.

Exactly, if you can work and you wont work you can starve for all I care. To that person I'd say, you made your own mess now live with it, or die with it.

But I do feel obligated to assist those that cant work and have basic needs, as I am able I do help.

[Ted]

Interesting. What about the millions, if not over a billion around the world that do not have enough every day of their lives. Are they to accept that as God's will?

It is very easy to sit back and judge others and say "If he's to damned lazy to work let him/her starve. That is a judgment based on ignorance.

Shalom
Ted

[Accountable]

Okay, Ted, there's the bite you've been casting for. I'm betting it took longer than you expected. Go ahead and impose your judgment as you tell her she's wrong to judge. Frankly it seems out of your character.

Me? I never tell people their plight is God's will. If a person is happy with their situation in life I celebrate with them. I've eaten some really interesting things that way. If a person is unhappy, with their situation, I try to help them find an option or two they can try to get themselves out. Of course, I can't and don't celebrate or collaborate with everyone - only those I have time and inclination for.

I must say that most people I've met who see themselves as poor are often in very similar circumstances as those who are happy, they just think themselves helpless. It's attitude that's different -- spirit, outlook, self-esteem call it what you will. Not much to be done about that without some serious one-on-one work.

When you talk about the millions and billions, I s'pose you're proposing we give money to someone to throw at the problem? Who would you suggest?

I help as many as I can, such as when I volunteered to help the Katrina evacuees. Now, as a teacher, I see myself in the job of prevention. I must say I've never met anyone starving to death on the street unable to help themselves. If I did, I would feed them; but feeding them is not truly helping them out of their situation but only helping them stay in it. They have to rise above it themselves. That they do so, I believe, is God's will.

[Benjamin]

Some people have problems that prevent them from holding down a job.

Originally Posted by Ted

Interesting. What about the millions, if not over a billion around the world that do not have enough every day of their lives. Are they to accept that as God's will?

It is very easy to sit back and judge others and say "If he's to damned lazy to work let him/her starve. That is a judgment based on ignorance.

Shalom
Ted

Show me where I said it was God's will that they starve? I'm not allowed to pass judgement on those individuals who can work but do not yet you have the gall to judge me saying my judgement is based on ignorance?

How utterly arrogant of you. How do you know what I do to help those less fortunate then me? How do you know the experiences I have had in seeing those who are able to do something to help themselves yet do nothing, fulling taking advantage of the charity of others? What are you doing? Are you out there helping some of these millions and billions of people? If so good. God Bless you for the ones you do help. If not, then how dare you criticize those that don't live up to your expectations.

[Ted]

Acc

I am truly sorry if you took that as personal as that was not the intent. There are those who take that attitude. I have not only seen them I have met them. I was judging no one on this issue. I don't know any of you personally beyond the forum. Perhaps I was not clear enough.

Shalom
Ted