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Thread: The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

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    The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

    I have been driving cars for some time in my life, and generally avoided the vehicles that you have to shift the gears yourself. Prefering rather those that automatically shift the gears for you, the traditional way of driving. I used to use this very same approach towards the bible, allowing tradition to mold my mind and views of God automatically. But then when I started to hear things I didnot really agree with, I took a closer personal look at the bible for myself. I was literally shocked at the difference in what I heard from those who were teaching and preaching, and what the bible itself was saying.

    The bible itself has shifted my thinking into another direction. I am not a christian or a religous man, but I do believe in God and am attracted to the bible, but I find some serious contridictions between the bible itself, and what religious people are teaching about it. The list is long, but the most glaring difference that has shifted my view is this: the preachers are saying that many sinners will perish in their sin, the bible describes God as a being that is not willing that any would perish, 2 Pet. 3:9, but that all would come into repentance. I personally don't know God, but in my view, such a being of obvious immense power, if this being has a will of none perishing, I don't see how his will cannot be done. So I decided to search the scriptures for Life, instead of the death of humanitys sinners. The search has turned up some interesting things about God, this most egnigmatic being, which I think spells good news for sinful humanity. Peace.

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    Re: The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

    Enjoy your search Mickiel. A journey through the Bible is both a perplexing and glorious one.

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    Re: The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB View Post
    Enjoy your search Mickiel. A journey through the Bible is both a perplexing and glorious one.


    Well yes indeed it is, and I am beginning to see that my search shouldnot be limited. I personally am interested in Salvation, in how God thinks about it, and whats really going on with it. I am sorry to admit that I am turned off by most popular views of Salvation, which seems to premeate through a lot of churchs. I am attracted to the bible though, espically a verse in 1 Tim.2:3-4;" This is Good and acceptable in the Sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth." A stunning couple of verses, they stunned me when I read them. I thought to myself, well goodness, is this what God really wants? I hadnot heard that in churchs, but yet there it was.

    The verse just seemed to look at me, instead of me at it, as if it was saying;" Well do you believe this ?" Its is saying that what is acceptable to God is that everyone be saved, which is heresey to even think of in most churchs, I mean whos wants to believe that all people can make it? Yet there the verse was, plain as day. This shifted some gears in my mind, so I searched to find support of this in Gods desires, not human preaching and interpitation. And let me say that it narrows your search when you look only to Gods word to explain itself, and not lean on the understanding of others.

    In Job 23:13, a very revealing thing about God is mentioned;" But he is unique and who can turn him? And what his soul desires that he does." 1 Tim.2:3-4 states that God desires all men to be saved and come to know the truth. Viewing these two scriptures, I was stunned, because if God gets his desires, then all men will be saved. I thought to myself that perhaps it is really true that God has not willed any to perish, but for all to repent. Yet if I was to judge that from our human history or even this present day, come on now, I know all men have not been led to repent. So that placed me into a position of looking deeper into the Bible to find an answer, and the word of God is slap full of them. Peace.

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    Re: The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

    Mickel, as a Christian and someone who tries to share the love of God with others I am saddened by the fact that you had never heard the "truth" about God from anyone. I am very encouraged however that you are interested enough to find the truth from the bible. That is the only real source of truth. Preachers that do not preach the truth and the whole truth as taught in the bible will be held responsible for their actions.

    God is a loving God! Most certainly it is His will that ALL would come to Salvation. The bible is full of God's blessing on mankind and His expression of love for them. The only troubling part about this post is that God created us with a will of our own, and the ability and desire to decide things for ourselves. Why? For the very reason you talk about. He is powerful enough to make us ALL come to repentence (salvation). That would make Him unjust. He would be looked upon as a bullying parent forcing us to love Him just because He is who He is. He is also powerful enough to say "break the rules and it is over, no way out". He therefore through the death of His only begotten Son gave us a way that ALL could come to salvation, our debt is paid, our sins covered, salvation is there for all who will come.

    "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."Romans 10:9

    God's love for you is real, it is expressed all through the bible, the bible is the gospel, the gospel is the Good News. Good News about what? That "God so loved the world that whosoever should believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

    So everyone can have salvation and that is God's desire, but He loves you too much to force it on you!

    More messages should be about this biblical Good News and not so much "How to Avoid Hell"

    May God Bless your endeavors in biblical study

    Bobby

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    Re: The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

    Welcome to the Garden!

    Enjoy your stay and enjoy the adventure your on in your pursuit of God.

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    Re: The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by BHughesNC View Post

    God is a loving God! Most certainly it is His will that ALL would come to Salvation. The bible is full of God's blessing on mankind and His expression of love for them. The only troubling part about this post is that God created us with a will of our own, and the ability and desire to decide things for ourselves. Why? For the very reason you talk about. He is powerful enough to make us ALL come to repentence (salvation). That would make Him unjust. He would be looked upon as a bullying parent forcing us to love Him just because He is who He is. He is also powerful enough to say "break the rules and it is over, no way out". He therefore through the death of His only begotten Son gave us a way that ALL could come to salvation, our debt is paid, our sins covered, salvation is there for all who will come.

    "May God Bless your endeavors in biblical study

    Bobby


    Well I thank you for your best wishes of my bible study. I read this response and the only troubling part about your post, is the assumption that God has left Salvation up to each individuals personal choice or will or something like that. I find that quite troubling, because it suggest that God has left salvation up to the individual persons choice of will or belief, which would still leave most of humanity in a bit of confusion, because most people willnot choose God if Salvation was left to them. I am sure that God is aware of this, so why would a being like God, who is wise enough to know that humans are foolish enough to choose not to believe in him, elect to make Salvation a human choice thing?

    If I had to save my children by doing things that would be considered bullying, I couldcareless who would label it bullying, I'm going to save them, and from what I have read in the Bible, God couldcareless who perceives him as bullying, he's going to save all of humanity. From my studies of the bible, Sin is the only thing that could condemn a human. In John 1:29, it says " Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World." When I read this I was stunned. It says Jesus has taken away the SinS of the WORLD! And you know I thought to myself, if I am to believe this, then nothing Christians say in their sermons can bring the sins back. No amount of christian explination, no Christian interpitation that leaves so much room for Jesus failure, no Christian unbelief in these scriptures, can bring any sin back on humanity, Jesus has taken away the Sins of the World, and sin is the only thing that could condemn humanity. I was overcome with a kind of Joy that I have not known.

    In my study of the Bible, I have actually found that the things that the Christians are saying, are more in oppisition with the Bible than any other influence I have encountered. This was a very disturbing surprise to me. One would think that Christians would be an example of Truth, but I have not found that to be so. No reflection on their personal characther, because I don't know them personally, but the reflection is on their words, as compared to Gods Words, there is a very noticable difference.

    Take this Christians words as an example. BHughes ,who has admitted to being Christian, has suggested that it would be unjust of God to make us repent. This makes no sense to me, if I need to be saved, I don't care how you save me, just do it, don't wait for or depend on my permission. Here I am drowning, and your standing there with the power and ability to save me, yet your more concern with how your act of salvation should be viewed, so you have established a way which " Gives Salvation with Godly Honor',that being the person drowning, must " Want to be Saved", must confess that they submit thjeir will to the Savior, then the Savior now feels confortable to save them. And this is a common belief amoungst Christians, which is why I do not want to be one. I haven't seen this in the Bible.

    In 1John 4:14, the reason God sent Jesus to the Earth is shown. " And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the World." That is a heavenly mission of worldwide responsibility. I read that Jesus has taken away the Sins of the World. I Read that God sent Jesus to be the Savior of the World. I read that God is not willing that Anyone would Perish. I read that it is Gods desire that everybody be saved. I like reading this bible. I like what it is saying about God, and I believe it. Peace.

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    Re: The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

    Sometimes, too much emphasis is put on the destination (salvation), and not enough is put on the journey (life). How are we living our lives while we are here on earth?



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    Re: The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

    Finally, an evangelist who quotes the texts he makes reference to. It's so much easier to follow the lines of thought. Congratulations.

    Where do you get "he's going to save all of humanity" from, bible-wise?
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    Re: The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by along-for-the-ride View Post
    Sometimes, too much emphasis is put on the destination (salvation), and not enough is put on the journey (life). How are we living our lives while we are here on earth?



    Just my opinion.


    Well I can understand that, how we live must have some meaning, and the bible has ****ed some gears in my mind in that area also. I had thought that Salvation was based on how we live, its what was being taught in my neighborhood during my youth. That if we lived a good life, that God would be pleased and we would go to heaven, conversely, if we didnot,then we were sent to this place called hell, where humans are kept alive and punished forever, which struck me as being something insane. So religion itself has shifted the emphasis on how we live this life journey, but has suggested some very serious implications that can happen if you don't succeed in your Journey. I have trouble with those implications.

    One could do as you have suggested and live a good life journey, but then get to the end, and according to some interpitations, that just not be judged as " Good Enough", well then its off to this hell with them. Thats a heavy mental block to put on a person who really wants to live a good life everyday. I have not seen this in the bible. What I have seen, hints more at Salvation being given to humanity, no matter how they have lived or done on their journey.

    Rom.5:18 Because of one mans sin, all men were condemned, which does not seem fair to me. All of humanity was condemned because of what this Adam guy did. But is just as unbelievable that because of this other one man, Jesus Christ, how he did on his journey, that resulted in the Salvation of all of humanity, which seems just as unfair on that end. But thats what this verse claims. So what I see in the bible is that Salvation is a done, free gift deal. And how we do on this life journey, I begin to think it matters, but it matters little anyway. Peace.

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    Re: The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Finally, an evangelist who quotes the texts he makes reference to. It's so much easier to follow the lines of thought. Congratulations.

    Where do you get "he's going to save all of humanity" from, bible-wise?


    I am not an evangelist, I am not a Christian, but I do believe in the bible. That being said, I have found many, many scriptures that show the Salvation of all. It would be too brash and take up too much room to list them, but I suggest a study of the bible for yourself. While your at it, consider 1 Tim. 2:6;"Who gave himself as a Ransom for all." Here the death of Jesus is called a " Ransom for All", that means everyone will benefit from his death, not just the believers. 1John 2:2 confirms this;"And he himself is the Propitiation for our sins, ( the " Our" here means believers) and not " Ours only", but also for those of the Whole World."

    Propitiation means satisfaction, or rendering Favorable, which means Christ death renders Gods judgement over sinful humanity in the favor of Salvation. Jesus did this for everyone, but thats not whats being taught. Peace.

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