Proof of God

Originally Posted by cloverleaf

Ted;
I should tell you that i dont want to punish jester because of he does not beleive in islam or prophet of islam , honestly i dont much care about what he beleives
but i dont have to respect his cursing to my religion right? i dont have to stand by his calling my prophet as thug etc..

for your question ;
God wanted to create universe in certain system like scientific system like math like physic chemical etc... thats why almost everything is on track (scientific track) but sometimes God wants to break this system and prophets miracles happen.

Jihad is the state that muslims are allowed only on certain stuations
and its not killing or punishing your christian neighbor :-)


According to islam beleif ; we should not fight people who dont fight with us or curse Allah , islam or muslims or all prophets (all the things are holy in islam) on purpose, even in state of war we are not allowed to touch children , women old people people who does not fight with us
this is the main rule of islam about fighting

its not islams fault that because of some people rules islam wrong or some other understand right things as wrong

My, my, my; you sure do like to contradict yourself, don't you? What you say in private obviously is not the same thing you profess in public.

[cloverleaf]

Originally Posted by ezanee

everything looks complicated now if we think about god. god itself is beyond our imagination.
it's easier to beleive that god is there, somebody became his messenger, told us that god exists and He wants us to do this and that- this gives purposes to our life isnt it...apart from life struggles given us the purpose to do things everyday.

..sigh.

God wanted to create universes (why? there none such question why because God wanted and any answers for it would create another question why)
and God wants us to do and not to do some certain things yes
and God wanted to create heaven and hell too
and God wanted to send some peope to heaven some to hell forever
so our job is doing what God wants from us to deserve heaven and stay away from his punisment (hell)

i suggest people not to get lost in space with asking wrong questions and trying not to find to answers
here s the of islam
beleive in there is only one God but God and Mohammad is the messenger of God
and die with this faith if you can and go to heaven forever or dont and go to hell forever
i dont understand how can they take the risk people who finds this is absurd
what if islam is right?

[ezanee]

Originally Posted by cloverleaf

God wanted to create universes (why? there none such question why because God wanted and any answers for it would create another question why)
and God wants us to do and not to do some certain things yes
and God wanted to create heaven and hell too
and God wanted to send some peope to heaven some to hell forever
so our job is doing what God wants from us to deserve heaven and stay away from his punisment (hell)

i suggest people not to get lost in space with asking wrong questions and trying not to find to answers
here s the of islam
beleive in there is only one God but God and Mohammad is the messenger of God
and die with this faith if you can and go to heaven forever or dont and go to hell forever
i dont understand how can they take the risk people who finds this is absurd
what if islam is right?

hey cloverfield,
dont get me wrong..l like islam religion, going to revert to islam soon enough, l m studying it, most people hear about islam but they dont want to research it, for me i know islam from the Quran and the Hadith, its wonderful..not thru the 'muslims', muslim are brothers but we should increase our knowledge day by day. somebody here hate islam so much, he/she wouldnt bother to see the real islam as mentioned in Quran and Hadith.... they can hate Muhammad and Quran as they like, for me i chose to beleive.
enough of atheism...
by the way im a doctor specialising in otolaryngology, head and neck surgery somewhere on earth, i think i am smart enough to chose my religion

Originally Posted by Ted

I've been away for a few weeks. An interesting discussion.

I think a lot of truth has been presented by all sides. I also think that the two religious sides have blinders on to certain things.

First of all I believe there is only one God. He/She has a thousand names and Allah is one of them.

It has been shown in several books but especially "The Great Transformation" by Karen Armstrong that the basis of all of the worlds great faiths is two tenets: justice and compassion.

Now we come to the problem all of the great faiths have their extremists or if you wish fanatics and this includes both Christianity and Islam. There are among all of the great faiths the middle of the road folks who strive for justice and compassion.

Christianity has had and continues to have atrocities committed in the name of God. I don't think there is any way to deny this.

By the same token Islam too has its extremists as jester has shown.

What does bother me as a Christian pluralist is the lack of respect I've seen on both sides not just here but all over. I respect the Islam that I've seen here where I live and I have met Muslims who respect my Christian faith.

A question for both sides. If God is almighty and knows all then why not leave the punishing up to God. If God is as above than why do we need crusaders or jihadists. Perhaps the very human person simply wants to commit atrocities in the name of God to somehow legitimate their stand. If God exists and I do believe in the reality of God than I'm not sure He/She is the least bit concerned about humans who make stupid comments. God is not that petty.

I'm puzzled by Clover's desire to punish jester. If God or Allah is all powerful than leave it up to Him/Her.

It is time for all faiths to get back to the original bases of justice and compassion.

Shalom
Ted

Ted if your puzzled over Clovers diesire to punish me you've had your head in the sand for the past, well for your entire life and all the history you've read.

You people still dont get it... Islam takes the action of what they believe Gods punishment to be and carry it out... thats WHY they are not the religion of peace but the MOST VIOLENT religion on earth! Clovers is doing what he's been taught by his religious beliefs in Islam. He claims peace, says hes not the violent type, then wants to punish me! He is the perfect example of your typical neutral Islmisty, I say neitral becaseu he wont actually come right out and axe someone to death but he will step aside and condone it when it happens because he secretly desires to be the punisher in the name of his god.

Originally Posted by cloverleaf

Ted;
I should tell you that i dont want to punish jester because of he does not beleive in islam or prophet of islam , honestly i dont much care about what he beleives
but i dont have to respect his cursing to my religion right? i dont have to stand by his calling my prophet as thug etc..

for your question ;
God wanted to create universe in certain system like scientific system like math like physic chemical etc... thats why almost everything is on track (scientific track) but sometimes God wants to break this system and prophets miracles happen.

Jihad is the state that muslims are allowed only on certain stuations
and its not killing or punishing your christian neighbor :-)


According to islam beleif ; we should not fight people who dont fight with us or curse Allah , islam or muslims or all prophets (all the things are holy in islam) on purpose, even in state of war we are not allowed to touch children , women old people people who does not fight with us
this is the main rule of islam about fighting

its not islams fault that because of some people rules islam wrong or some other understand right things as wrong

Clover, does any ligitimate state of Jihad exist in the world right now? Would you give up all you have to follow it? And what state of Jihad exists currently in your opinon?

Originally Posted by JAB

My, my, my; you sure do like to contradict yourself, don't you? What you say in private obviously is not the same thing you profess in public.

JAB darlin, if you feel any real threat you can call Jester's Men, we'll come help ya!

Originally Posted by Jester

JAB darlin, if you feel any real threat you can call Jester's Men, we'll come help ya!

So noted.....

[cloverleaf]

Originally Posted by ezanee

hey cloverfield,
dont get me wrong..l like islam religion, going to revert to islam soon enough, l m studying it, most people hear about islam but they dont want to research it, for me i know islam from the Quran and the Hadith, its wonderful..not thru the 'muslims', muslim are brothers but we should increase our knowledge day by day. somebody here hate islam so much, he/she wouldnt bother to see the real islam as mentioned in Quran and Hadith.... they can hate Muhammad and Quran as they like, for me i chose to beleive.
enough of atheism...
by the way im a doctor specialising in otolaryngology, head and neck surgery somewhere on earth, i think i am smart enough to chose my religion

you can ask me if there is something that makes you confuse about islam
or about islamic tradition
i also suggest to learn islam from imam birgivi (path of Muhammad)
which my wife learned alot from this book and she reverted in islam
or from al ghazali who is one of the bigest philosophers on earth

[Ted]

jester

You are speaking of only a branch of Islam. There are peaceful Muslims who look for justice and compassion. I know. I've met them.

It is no different in Christianity.

Shalom
Ted

Originally Posted by Ted

jester

You are speaking of only a branch of Islam. There are peaceful Muslims who look for justice and compassion. I know. I've met them.

It is no different in Christianity.

Shalom
Ted

Ted how many peacful muslums have you met. And how many of them have denounced all the violence that Islam commits?