A question for Anglicans

[Galbally]

Hi all, I'm not very religious as I'm sure a lot of you know, but I am a Catholic nonetheless. I have been watching the events in the Anglican church (or better known as the Church of England, and its associated churches worldwide) lately, and it seems to me that the church is splitting evenly along the lines drawn over the very controversial issue of gay clergy and to a lesser degree female clergy, predictably between conservatives who utterly disagree with these ideas, and liberals who embrace this move. Both of course are well able to quote their religious tracts to justify their positions.

So my questions are, what do any Anglicans think about this, or do you care? Also, what do you think the future is for the Anglican Church in general.

[spot]

Originally Posted by Galbally

Hi all, I'm not very religious as I'm sure a lot of you know, but I am a Catholic nonetheless. I have been watching the events in the Anglican church (or better known as the Church of England, and its associated churches worldwide) lately, and it seems to me that the church is splitting evenly along the lines drawn over the very controversial issue of gay clergy and to a lesser degree female clergy, predictably between conservatives who utterly disagree with these ideas, and liberals who embrace this move. Both of course are well able to quote their religious tracts to justify their positions.

So my questions are, what do any Anglicans think about this, or do you care? Also, what do you think the future is for the Anglican Church in general.

The church to which I've been affiliated is merging back in with the Anglicans in around four years so I'm a sort-of Anglican.

The worldwide Anglican communion might well disintegrate into two confessions, London-centred liberal and African-centred Conservative. Each would promote roving Bishops with factional authority in the other's territory to provide pastoral oversight of parishes which break away from the preponderant local party. That's happening already, it's the reason I think the split's inevitable.

So, nationally the preponderant faction - in the UK that's the liberal wing - keeps all but a few parishes, a few break away to a new confession and retain Christ's commission by the laying on of hands of the roving Bishops. The idea of roving Bishops within the same confession is twenty years old and has no remaining mileage to it at all.

It'll probably involve a few evictions, a few parish councils going to the House of Lords about who can worship in the old parish church building. Small earthquake, not many dead.

I can pinpoint the one moment which existed in the 20th century for Anglicanism to re-enter communion with Rome and end up with no Women Priests much less Women Bishops, it's a turning point in world history and it happened fifty years ago five hundred yards from where I live. Would you like to hear me make it up as I go, bearing in mind that it's all true?

[AussiePam]

The Australian Anglican scene is peculiar. The Diocese of Sydney - and the head of the Anglican church in Australia - is quite different from the Anglican church in pretty much all the rest of the country. It's Evangelical with a capital E, narrow, conservative and tends towards Methodism. It is totally anti women, gays etc. The Canberra (capital of Australia) is much more liberal, has women priests, will predicably have a female bishop soon (there is one in Perth, Western Australia) and is much closer to Catholicism. Bells and smells, Mass, dressing up, priests, confession etc. In Sydney it's parsons, long sermons, and dark suits with dog collars. I don't think we have openly gay clergy anywhere. BUT a bit of the most Catholic wing has joined with the most Evangelical wing in solidarity over the abomination of women who want to do more than teach Sunday school.

As an ordinary bad Anglican Catholic - I really don't care about all these politicians posturing and legislating. It is my opinion that the Church government long ago became an end in itself. Structure is necessary, but it isn't what Christianity is about. My Parish in Canberra has a senior female priest in charge, a doctor of theology and a canon. She is an inspiration. But I've had great male priests too. I really don't care. Wouldn't mind a gay one either, per se.

[Galbally]

Originally Posted by spot

The church to which I've been affiliated is merging back in with the Anglicans in around four years so I'm a sort-of Anglican.

The worldwide Anglican communion might well disintegrate into two confessions, London-centred liberal and African-centred Conservative. Each would promote roving Bishops with factional authority in the other's territory to provide pastoral oversight of parishes which break away from the preponderant local party. That's happening already, it's the reason I think the split's inevitable.

So, nationally the preponderant faction - in the UK that's the liberal wing - keeps all but a few parishes, a few break away to a new confession and retain Christ's commission by the laying on of hands of the roving Bishops. The idea of roving Bishops within the same confession is twenty years old and has no remaining mileage to it at all.

It'll probably involve a few evictions, a few parish councils going to the House of Lords about who can worship in the old parish church building. Small earthquake, not many dead.

I can pinpoint the one moment which existed in the 20th century for Anglicanism to re-enter communion with Rome and end up with no Women Priests much less Women Bishops, it's a turning point in world history and it happened fifty years ago five hundred yards from where I live. Would you like to hear me make it up as I go, bearing in mind that it's all true?

Yes absolutely, fire away, this is fascinating, roving bishops indeed!

[Galbally]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

The Australian Anglican scene is peculiar. The Diocese of Sydney - and the head of the Anglican church in Australia - is quite different from the Anglican church in pretty much all the rest of the country. It's Evangelical with a capital E, narrow, conservative and tends towards Methodism. It is totally anti women, gays etc. The Canberra (capital of Australia) is much more liberal, has women priests, will predicably have a female bishop soon (there is one in Perth, Western Australia) and is much closer to Catholicism. Bells and smells, Mass, dressing up, priests, confession etc. In Sydney it's parsons, long sermons, and dark suits with dog collars. I don't think we have openly gay clergy anywhere. BUT a bit of the most Catholic wing has joined with the most Evangelical wing in solidarity over the abomination of women who want to do more than teach Sunday school.

As an ordinary bad Anglican Catholic - I really don't care about all these politicians posturing and legislating. It is my opinion that the Church government long ago became an end in itself. Structure is necessary, but it isn't what Christianity is about. My Parish in Canberra has a senior female priest in charge, a doctor of theology and a canon. She is an inspiration. But I've had great male priests too. I really don't care. Wouldn't mind a gay one either, per se.

This does sound peculiar, I suppose I am a typical Catholic in that I don't really get the doctrinaire stuff with liberal Protestantism (though of course issues such as gay rights and womens' rights are perfectly understandable in a secular social context) and the controversy it generates, as in Catholicism (which is not very liberal) it just is the way it is, and if you are a practicing Catholic you accept it, though change certainly happens, but its very much from the top down, and most Catholics wouldn't get into the rules bit about the religion, just when abuses start to be made public I suppose there is a general feeling that things should change.

[Ted]

Here in Canada we have a few roving bishops, who should be sent home where they belong. They are not Anglican tradition nor are the allowed for in the canons.

The majority of Canadian Anglicans are ok with women priests and bishops (not new here) as well as having no problem with same sex issues whether it be as priests or congregants. All are welcome at the Lord's table.

Shalom
Ted

[Kindle]

The Episcopal Church in the United States has female and gay priests and, consequently, female priests and gay bishops. This is an outgrowth of the belief that they should be inclusive rather than exclusive.

The hot issue here right now are churches (5) which want to leave over the gay issue and become separated from the Episcopal Church. Separating is not a problem, but the assets of land, church, etc. is now in court to be settled as the churches are not owned by the parish, but by the Episcopal Church.

[spot]

Originally Posted by Galbally

Yes absolutely, fire away

My dear boy, I completely missed seeing that invitation last time around. You actually want me to tell the tale? I'll try to write it this evening.

[Ted]

This is the best place for this at the moment.

My computer is beginning to fail. It is very old and a tune up won't likely cut it. My email is somewhat screwed up but still working, sort of. My sound card is dead and I've only about 20% free space left out of 40GB. Damned thing freezes up when I try to work in photoshop.

If I disappear for a short bit I will be back.

I looked at a new HP yesterday and will likely pick it up in a week or so.

Shalom
Ted

[spot]

I'm sure you'll enjoy a new machine Ted. If you have a few days between machines, you live in the most beautiful place on earth - take in the views and the fresh air. We'll enjoy having you back when you get online again.