Religious Displays in Public

[Ted]

JAB

It really depends on the age of the child doesn't it.

Shalom
Ted

[Ted]

Hoss

If you check your history you will find out that fundamentalism is phenomenon of the 20th. cent. Thus it is the child of the reformation which usurped the term Christian and then created its own faith. This does not go back to the early church.

Fundamentalism in any faith is dangerous: terrorism, shooters of abortion doctors, the calling for the assassination of foreign presents, the picketing of funeral of gay folks, the total denial of science accept when it comes to the science that helps them out. Some accept the treatments they get but then when a doctor tells then that something like homosexuality is a given and not a choice they deny it. Fundamentalists want to impose their beliefs on others. That includes the fundamentalists from all the great faiths. Fundamentalists preach and teach on the parts of the Bible they like and ignore the rest or try creative dancing to get around those difficult spots.

Shalom
Ted

[Ted]

Hoss

Your rant on "wait till he comes" simply proves my point. It looks a lot like judging to me. The exclusivity is not Christian it is an invention of man.

Yes I will take my chances with God because I trust Him/Her. No man will be my judge.

Shalom
Ted

Originally Posted by Ted

Hoss

Your rant on "wait till he comes" simply proves my point. It looks a lot like judging to me. The exclusivity is not Christian it is an invention of man.

Yes I will take my chances with God because I trust Him/Her. No man will be my judge.

Shalom
Ted

I did not say man was coming to judge I said Jesus will come with his army of angels. I wasn’t talking about exclusivity just the mighty power of God in Christ Jesus, you said he was a passive man, I say he was a meek man who followed the ways of his Father, but when the fullness of time comes and he is set as judge you can bet he will. And it won’t be as passive man it will be in full power and he will no longer hold back under great grace all that we deserve. I think we agree here, I was just mentioning that Jesus incarnate did have power to judge but he withheld it at that time. I’m adding to the truth of what you stated, giving fuller picture.

Originally Posted by Ted

Hoss

If you check your history you will find out that fundamentalism is phenomenon of the 20th. cent. Thus it is the child of the reformation which usurped the term Christian and then created its own faith. This does not go back to the early church.

Fundamentalism in any faith is dangerous: terrorism, shooters of abortion doctors, the calling for the assassination of foreign presents, the picketing of funeral of gay folks, the total denial of science accept when it comes to the science that helps them out. Some accept the treatments they get but then when a doctor tells then that something like homosexuality is a given and not a choice they deny it. Fundamentalists want to impose their beliefs on others. That includes the fundamentalists from all the great faiths. Fundamentalists preach and teach on the parts of the Bible they like and ignore the rest or try creative dancing to get around those difficult spots.

Shalom
Ted

I was just asking, you talk of it as a cult and all who are in it are damned for thinking the way that they do, I was just wondering if Christian Pluralism included Christian Fundamentalists.

Originally Posted by Ted

I simply cannot agree with Hoss on this one. Language is an ever developing thing. Words are constantly evolving and changing in their meaning. What is a swear word to one is simply not to another.

The F. word is a good example. In the dictionary it has dozens of meanings and many of them have nothing to do with sex. To the question "do you want your children . . ." I can only say they hear it almost everywhere they go; the school yard, with friends, on the street, in a friends house, on the bus etc. To complain about rap with sexual overtones is likewise something that is common. Do people think these children don't know anything? LOL.

The problem is not the language but the attempt to control everything in society. I used to work near a Christian school. According to the bus drivers it was not a positive experience. The kids were so controlled during the day that all hell broke loose when they got on the bus. These children will find integration into regular society very difficult. You cannot control your child when he/she is out of your sight so it is better to be a guide and trust that they will learn from the environment in which they are raised. Such control can lead to mental health problems. I have seen this on more than one occasion.

Raise your children to be honest, decent folks with a feeling for justice and compassion and one has done well. Do not shelter your child from the real world.

Shalom
Ted

LOL! I have to revisit this one. I don't see how you can say this with a straight face, you stereotyped Christian Parents and Schools as producing socially retarded children that are unruly at best and prone to mental disorders. How many times have you seen Christian school children have mental illness, more than once, so is it twice then? Is it more often than the non Christian school children? LOL!

I'm 18, I am a product of a mother and father who took my education and my early training serious. They made sure that I received a good education. They sacrificed a lot for us kids and my dad took extra jobs even as he was in the US Army, which I have no idea how he did it all. My mother worked as close to home as she could, she had home businesses that kept her there, and she sold cards, made art work, babysat other families’ children and worked tirelessly educating us in all that she could. What they could not do themselves to a high degree of proficiency they hired out to make sure I got a good education. My dad would stay up nights helping me with homework, never giving me the answers but teaching me how to find them, he always took me aside, worked with me in his business, and taught me how to run my own lawn business, fairly and honestly. He taught me to work on cars, weld, wood carve, hunt fish, make models, paint cars, play sports, get regular exercise when I came to him at 11 years old and told him I wanted to be a firemen we jumped in the truck and went to the local fire station and the firemen took me all around the station gave me a patch that they wear and told me all about what it took to be a fireman, my dad and mom has been and is interested in all that I do. I’m a product of both home schooling and private Christian schooling. My end of year testing I was very successful, making a two year college level ending. I finished a semester early. At 18 I have 3 college courses under me and I’m in EMT school now. I was granted a fire academy slot for the state based on an interview alone.

I’m not bragging here, I’m giving glory to my parents for helping me do all of that, and to God for giving me parents who care about every aspect of my wellbeing.

Can I relate into society? Judge for yourself. True I may be somewhat naive, but that’s because I am simple concerning evil and wise concerning things that are holy. I’m not socially retarded, I just choose not to participate in the common things that most of my age group does. For me that’s ok.

If you ask me if I never gave the bus driver a hard time I’d be lying, I was a kid like every other kid and I did stuff wrong as I grew up. The difference is that my parents corrected me. You can’t judge kids like that; they are in transition and learning too. It’s very judgmental of you to hold them responsible for being better than non Christian school kids when they are kids just the same as any other.

I knew someday this would come back to haunt me but I luggied a spitwad in the hair of my school bus driver. I’m embarrassed to say, but when my parents found out they talked to me about what I did, why it was wrong then they left it to me to go correct. I took my punishment from the school that’s for sure; I expected a spanking, but no spanking. For three weeks I refused to go make it right. You guys know my dad, how hard he is, but he was patient and he wanted me to learn the lesson instead of just forcing me to do what was right to save his embarrassment. He never spoke a harsh word to me over it, he just waited for all his words to sink in and when it did I went back to him and asked him for his advice. I knew what I needed to do but when I asked him for help doing it he did not make me do it on my own he came along side me, prayed with me, helped me to have the courage I needed to go face her and apologize. I’d see her in church and get out of there fast. I loved her, and I hurt her feelings and I was ashamed but too scared to go make it right. Dad remained patient. Late one evening about a month later it was just eating me up, and I came to him and asked him if we could go see her and he took me, I cried all the way there, ran up to her house and apologized a hundred times, she was just waiting for me to come. She has been a lifelong friend to me, she writes me on my birthdays and when we are back home I visit her. I used to help her on the school bus after that, keeping the kids in line.

You can’t tell me all those kids in Christian Schools are bad kids just because they are in Christian schools. I don’t believe it.

[Hope6]

Whoa!

i think everybody needs to take a deep breath and calm down in here!

remember the threads supposed to be about the subject not any of the people who post on it! (just a gentle reminder guys)

[Hope6]

Originally Posted by QUINNSCOMMENTARY

I was just in a restaurant and the people sitting next to me began their meal holding hands and praying. While in Heathrow airport last week there were several orthodox Jews in their traditional clothing praying, swaying back and forth, and reading from a book, presumably the Torah, out loud.

I am not an overly religious person and I am definitely not a person who would display any religious activity or special garb in public, I find religion a very personal and very private experience, but obviously my views are my views and not shared by many people. I actually find overt public displays of religious beliefs or practices embarrassing.

How do you feel when the person sitting next to you starts praying or reading out load from his or her Holy book?

i have been part of groups many times out at restaurants and we would say grace before we ate, it didn't bother me to do it and i'm not bothered when others do it either! it's not like i'm preaching to them trying to convert them or something it's just a few seconds of a quite prayer!

[flopstock]

Originally Posted by QUINNSCOMMENTARY

I was just in a restaurant and the people sitting next to me began their meal holding hands and praying. While in Heathrow airport last week there were several orthodox Jews in their traditional clothing praying, swaying back and forth, and reading from a book, presumably the Torah, out loud.

I am not an overly religious person and I am definitely not a person who would display any religious activity or special garb in public, I find religion a very personal and very private experience, but obviously my views are my views and not shared by many people. I actually find overt public displays of religious beliefs or practices embarrassing.

How do you feel when the person sitting next to you starts praying or reading out load from his or her Holy book?

I don't feel any different then I do when they start singing to their headphones, making out with their boyfriend, arguing with their husband or wife or just generally invading my buffer zone with their noise and behavior. And god help us all, would you mind picking that screaming kid up and moving away from everyone until it's quieted?

[Ted]

Hoss

Having "met" you dad, so to speak, I think he is a fine man and I have no doubts about your mother. No, I am not judging you or anyone else. That is God's role alone.

I stand by what I said concerning the kids from a particular Christian school. The drivers gave me the info. as they had driven for both Christian and public schools and they did not like their experiences of those from the Christian school.

I am not talking mental illness. I spoke of a woman who had a nervous breakdown as a result of her very narrow upbringing. When she had to face the real world she could not handle it. This is not true, I should think, of all Christians.

You ask for my take on fundamentalism. I gave my observations. They are not judgments but simply observations. I could judge no individual nor would I try. That would be totally inappropriate.

You mentioned God's wrath. If your take on God is the correct one than you have a God with a multiple personality problem. Jesus was in fact a non-violent resister as was Paul. Neither of them took up arms nor advocated such. In fact if you recall the story of Gethsemane you will also remember that Jesus would not allow a weapon even in his own defense. If we see the true nature of God in Jesus of Nazareth we do not see that kind of wrath that you are suggesting. What we do see at times is righteous anger but he certainly wished no one any harm.

BTW I think that you turned out just fine as a result of your upbringing. I disagree on many points but that does not mean that I do not respect you. All the best.

Shalom
Ted