Devout to Devoid

[Raven]

Britain seems to have come full circle.
It started out as an island populated with various pagan peoples. Then come the cistercian monks who christianized the whole place. Benedictine orders of Roman Catholicism. Then comes one of the bloodiest periods in christian history......the reformation. The blood letting between the protestants and catholics in the british isles and Ireland is breathtaking.
Fast forward to today. Even though it seems to be localized in Ireland at the moment, Britain, for the most part, is totally secular. Although the 'official' religion of Britain is Anglican, they are for the most part a non-religious people. Most dont go to church. There is a saying here, that you only go to a church for weddings and funerals.
I'm talking about a place who beheaded a King, and fought a civil war, all because of passionately held beliefs over religion.
Is it possible that the result of all that bloodletting, result in basically beating the religion out of the psyche of an entire people?
Is this possible?

[Clint]

Originally Posted by Raven

Britain seems to have come full circle.
It started out as an island populated with various pagan peoples. Then come the cistercian monks who christianized the whole place. Benedictine orders of Roman Catholicism. Then comes one of the bloodiest periods in christian history......the reformation. The blood letting between the protestants and catholics in the british isles and Ireland is breathtaking.
Fast forward to today. Even though it seems to be localized in Ireland at the moment, Britain, for the most part, is totally secular. Although the 'official' religion of Britain is Anglican, they are for the most part a non-religious people. Most dont go to church. There is a saying here, that you only go to a church for weddings and funerals.
I'm talking about a place who beheaded a King, and fought a civil war, all because of passionately held beliefs over religion.
Is it possible that the result of all that bloodletting, result in basically beating the religion out of the psyche of an entire people?
Is this possible?

We are seeing the same thing happen here in the United States. This country rose to greatness on Christian values and now it is turning its back on its roots. Israel did the same thing over and over again. God would send judges to get them back on track again, then they would slip into self reliance, pride and finally disarray again. We never seem to learn.

[Tombstone]

Originally Posted by Clint

We are seeing the same thing happen here in the United States. This country rose to greatness on Christian values and now it is turning its back on its roots. Israel did the same thing over and over again. God would send judges to get them back on track again, then they would slip into self reliance, pride and finally disarray again. We never seem to learn.

Clint,

Would you say that about the U.S.? I have been reading several reports that more and more people are going to church again. There is an awakened spirit.

These same reports do confirm what Raven posted - that the UK is becoming more secular - with a capital S.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by Tombstone

Clint,

Would you say that about the U.S.? I have been reading several reports that more and more people are going to church again. There is an awakened spirit.

These same reports do confirm what Raven posted - that the UK is becoming more secular - with a capital S.

People may be going back to church but the divorce rate for church goers is the same as the rest. Many churches are becoming more secular, trying to keep the doors open by pandering to the pews.

[Lon]

According to articles in Time, Newsweek & U.S. News in the past year, the growth in the Evangelicals is huge, and growing.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by Lon

According to articles in Time, Newsweek & U.S. News in the past year, the growth in the Evangelicals is huge, and growing.

Raven is concerned that religion is being beat out of the psyche of the people. My concern is that even evangelical growth in terms of attendance hasn’t reduced moral decline and isn't proof that the human psyche is more responsive to the will of God. I don’t mean to be negative. I’m delighted that evangelical numbers are up. I just think there is more to this than attendance. The sad truth is that many evangelical congregations have become masters at entertainment.

[Lon]

Originally Posted by Clint

Raven is concerned that religion is being beat out of the psyche of the people. My concern is that even evangelical growth in terms of attendance hasn’t reduced moral decline and isn't proof that the human psyche is more responsive to the will of God. I don’t mean to be negative. I’m delighted that evangelical numbers are up. I just think there is more to this than attendance. The sad truth is that many evangelical congregations have become masters at entertainment.

Couldn"t the non-believers (like me) and the non-affiliated be responsible for this Moral Decline? How do you know that it is relgiously affiliated folk exclusively?
Masters of Entertainment by the Evangelicals? Do you mean like having basketball teams, soccer teams, baby sitting facilities and all these other activities to bring in the young families. Yep, I guess what is needed is the OLD TIME RELIGION. Just believe in the word, sit on those hard pews for two hours of a Sunday AM and listen to the preach go at it. Amen!!!
With all due respect Clint, aren't you showing a wee bit of intolerance by your dig at the Evangelicals?

[Clint]

Originally Posted by Lon

Couldn"t the non-believers (like me) and the non-affiliated be responsible for this Moral Decline? How do you know that it is relgiously affiliated folk exclusively?
Masters of Entertainment by the Evangelicals? Do you mean like having basketball teams, soccer teams, baby sitting facilities and all these other activities to bring in the young families. Yep, I guess what is needed is the OLD TIME RELIGION. Just believe in the word, sit on those hard pews for two hours of a Sunday AM and listen to the preach go at it. Amen!!!
With all due respect Clint, aren't you showing a wee bit of intolerance by your dig at the Evangelicals?

I am pleased that there is an increase in Evangelical church attendance. I consider those people to be my brothers and sisters in Christ. I am concerned that too often the church is following secular movements rather than leading. They have adopted secular music styles, taken on feel good philosophies and promoted attendance with free coffee and donuts.

Christ came to demonstrate love through sacrifice and we demonstrate it today with emphasis on good feelings and convenient worship styles.
It’s a good thing that hard pews have been replaced with soft chairs and a two hour sermon doesn’t make sense to me given the length of time people can actually pay attention

No offense taken. Intolerance is not an immoral act. Jesus wasn't tolerant of a lot of things.

[Bothwell]

Raven I suspect that our well known scepticism for those in authority would also be a contributing factor.

Certainly as far as the Catholic church goes the latest well publicised abuse cases will have dented their figures.

Most people I talk to just don't see the relevance, what right has some guy in a funny cloak got to tell us how to lead our lives. Also (and I know creationists will jump on this) as science advances we get more cynical against the unwavering beliefs some religions espouse, i.e. the creation.

When I look at the most recent conflicts they all have religious overtones :

Iraq = Christian v Muslim
Balkans = Muslim v Christian v Orthodox
Middle East = Muslim v Christian v phalangist

etc etc

bear in mind that I am sure all these religions would claim they are peace loving.

I belive that there is a higher being, if only to think that there may be some purpose to our exsistence but I do not need to get dressed up on a Sunday to communicate with this being or let other people see me do it.

[Beth]

I would love to move to England, get away from all the godbotherers who think they have a right to butt into my life. Way to go Britain!