Fewer secular wars because of religion

[Clint]

There are many who charge that war and other atrocities are caused by religion. It is true that some wars and some atrocities are the result of religious conflict. It is also true that many wars and many atrocities happen for totally different reasons. People fight over land, hunting grounds, fishing, air space, forms of government, water, oil, food, and a host of other reasons. Could it be that we actually have fewer wars and fewer atrocities because of the values taught by most religions? Could it be that things would be a lot worse if men hadn’t been taught to love their neighbor and not to steal or murder? I think a better case could be made for religion’s calming effect than what we so often hear from the religion haters. How many wars would we have had without religion's influence?

[Ted]

Clint

Religions have been implicated in a lot of world atrocities and Christianity must bare the burden of its share. Generally it is the more extremists that cause the problem but not always.

In some cases such as Northern Ireland religion is the scapegoat and not the cause. The problem in Northern Ireland according to an Irish Dr. is purely political and has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

Perhaps the Capt. can comment on that.

Shalom
Ted

[Bothwell]

No I will comment Ted, absolute bollocks. I will try and remember anytime when a persons political view has been expressed rather than being from the "Catholic or Protestant" viewpoint.

The view you have from the Irish Dr will be biaised to one side or the other. the warring factions may well be using political methods to gain power but I can assure you the divide is on religious grounds, always has been always will.

If you want to try this theory out, walk into a North Belfast pub and declare you are a protestant but that you agree with the IRA's political views. Good Luck

[Clint]

Two Irishmen were sitting at a pub having beer and watching the brothel across the street.
They saw a Baptist minister walk into the brothel, and one of them said, "Aye, 'tis a shame to see a man of the cloth goin' bad."
Then they saw a rabbi enter the brothel, and the other Irishman said, "Aye, 'tis a shame to see that the Jews are fallin' victim to temptation as well."
Then they see a catholic priest enter the brothel, and one of the Irishmen said, "What a terrible pity...one of the girls must be dying.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Clint

There are many who charge that war and other atrocities are caused by religion. It is true that some wars and some atrocities are the result of religious conflict. It is also true that many wars and many atrocities happen for totally different reasons. People fight over land, hunting grounds, fishing, air space, forms of government, water, oil, food, and a host of other reasons. Could it be that we actually have fewer wars and fewer atrocities because of the values taught by most religions? Could it be that things would be a lot worse if men hadn’t been taught to love their neighbor and not to steal or murder? I think a better case could be made for religion’s calming effect than what we so often hear from the religion haters. How many wars would we have had without religion's influence?

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this one, Clint.
Religion, by it's very nature is divisive and fractious. Men have been killing in the name of 'god' for eons. Take for example, the current conflict with Irag. That is just another chapter to the crusades against the ottoman. Islam has cried Jihad. I think everyone in the western world is familier with that term now. The west is the 'great satan' which must be wiped out, by any means. Even that isnt new. Remember a man named Malcom X? By any means, Clint. It's Christianity vs. Islam chptr bazillion and two. In the middle east it's Judaeism vs. Islam since Isaac and Ishmael. All of the wars man has fought, may have had other reasons MASKING the true nature of them, but they have ALWAYS had religion driving them. ALWAYS.

[Wild Weasil]

Raven has hit the nail on the head.

One way or the other, religion in whatever form manages to rear its ugly; devisive head in most conflicts even if the original bone of contention was not religious.

The German army used to have 'God with us' on their belt buckles, while allied soldiers were told they were fighting the Lords fight, and so it goes.

I am not a religious person, indeed I actively avoid anything with a religious bent, but I am sure that if there is a God (of whatever stripe) then he (or even she, why not?) would not be best pleased with the people supposedly representing him. I would imagine that if there is a hell then a fair proportion of its inhabitants would be priests, mullahs, preachers etc.

Try to treat people as you would be treated yourself is my advice.

[capt_buzzard]

Originally Posted by Bothwell

No I will comment Ted, absolute bollocks. I will try and remember anytime when a persons political view has been expressed rather than being from the "Catholic or Protestant" viewpoint.

The view you have from the Irish Dr will be biaised to one side or the other. the warring factions may well be using political methods to gain power but I can assure you the divide is on religious grounds, always has been always will.

If you want to try this theory out, walk into a North Belfast pub and declare you are a protestant but that you agree with the IRA's political views. Good Luck

Top of the morning to ya Bothwell.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by Raven

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this one, Clint.
Religion, by it's very nature is divisive and fractious. Men have been killing in the name of 'god' for eons. Take for example, the current conflict with Irag. That is just another chapter to the crusades against the ottoman. Islam has cried Jihad. I think everyone in the western world is familier with that term now. The west is the 'great satan' which must be wiped out, by any means. Even that isnt new. Remember a man named Malcom X? By any means, Clint. It's Christianity vs. Islam chptr bazillion and two. In the middle east it's Judaeism vs. Islam since Isaac and Ishmael. All of the wars man has fought, may have had other reasons MASKING the true nature of them, but they have ALWAYS had religion driving them. ALWAYS.

I see your point, to a point.

The war against terrorism, to this point, has been a religious war on one side and a war of self defense on the other. I think it is that way because so many Christians now realize that being the instigator and aggressor in war is not what Jesus teaches.

The values Jesus teach are more likely to cause his followers to have mercy than to wage war. I still think that without his teaching and example we may have had more wars than we have.

What about N. Korea vs. S Korea and Japan vs. U.S. or Vietnam? Were those religiously motivated? I suppose the case could be made but wouldn’t it be a bit of a stretch?

[Ted]

When it comes to war and religion it is generally the extremists on both sides that cause the problem. The general tenents of both Islam and Christianity call for peace and coexistence.

Shalom
Ted

[Clint]

Originally Posted by Ted

When it comes to war and religion it is generally the extremists on both sides that cause the problem. The general tenents of both Islam and Christianity call for peace and coexistence.

Shalom
Ted

There are those who claim that war is very mainstream Islam. Mohamed actually taught that the way to an Islamic world is to wipe out the infidels.

I know that a changed heart resulting in new birth is the preferred method of Jesus. A “Christian” who advocates evangelism by force has actually hijacked the name. There have been those who have declared war in his name but I doubt they knew him.

I laugh when I think of the Army Colonel who had a battlefield conversion and in his zeal ordered those under his command to accept Jesus. He said there was a lot of insubordination that day.