God and Consciousness.

[Mickiel]

Originally Posted by Singh-Song

Yes, they do, but does it stand that a man who commits the most heinous of crimes in the 'crusader' mentality, under the warped belief that his actions are a sign of his faith in God, should be welcomed into heaven with open arms without once even feeling the slightest bit of remorse for his crimes? Should salvation be unconditional for those whose actions and intentions show that they only wish to reap damnation?



Because, first the percentage of those who are 'effectively doomed' depends on the assumed height of the bar. Also, while I admittedly have one or two issues with the finer details, Sikhi also believes in reincarnation, with the only route of release from this infinite cycle of rebirth into what could effectively be described as heaven. Viewed in this light, with every soul starting from a clean slate each time regardless of how much sin may have been committed in a previous attempt, this is a continuous display of God's limitless forgiveness. Over the course of time, everyone would be virtually guaranteed their eventual place.

p.s, sorry if the tone has become somewhat- evangelical...

The " Assumed height of the bar", is evidence that your belief is measuring out Salvation to only those who deserve it. Since you are measuring, you then measure how much " Sin and evil is going to be allowed", so those who cross the line, just won't get salvation in your view.

Under this kind of system, humans can be effectively " Canceled out", for not bearing up to the standards your belief sets.

The God I believe in is not like that..He only required his Son to reach his standards, which his son did. I wouldnot be in a religion that required such standards that most people couldnot keep. Such religions create high minded self righteous extremist. The kind who are " Greedy with the future of humanity", and seek to limit it to only being filled with such self righteous people as themselves.

Peace.

[Singh-Song]

The " Assumed height of the bar", is evidence that your belief is measuring out Salvation to only those who deserve it. Since you are measuring, you then measure how much " Sin and evil is going to be allowed", so those who cross the line, just won't get salvation in your view.

Under this kind of system, humans can be effectively " Canceled out", for not bearing up to the standards your belief sets.

The God I believe in is not like that..He only required his Son to reach his standards, which his son did. I wouldnot be in a religion that required such standards that most people couldnot keep. Such religions create high minded self righteous extremist. The kind who are " Greedy with the future of humanity", and seek to limit it to only being filled with such self righteous people as themselves.

Peace.

If you really want 'peace', then why is it that every reply you've posted seems to be focused primarily on disrespecting my religion? Have you actually understood anything I've said? You're saying that such religions create high minded self-righteous extremists. What does your mystery faith (given that you claim not to follow Christianity, yet still repeatedly cite the sacrifice of God's only Son as the sole reason for the entirety of humanity's salvation- care to explain that to me?), create in its own philosophy that 'we are all guaranteed our place in heaven by the Grace of God', condoning any lifestyle or action if the individual so chooses? Answer- even greater levels of extremism, but with its extremists advocating the abolition of all standards, rules and the notion of any consequences for their actions. Why do you think the fastest growing 'religion' in the western world today is Atheism? Because if Christianity is just a set of rules we're supposed to live by, but hey, there's nothing we can do to jeopardise our graduation, why bother with the effort of doing any work at all? Why turn up for classes? Let's run havoc in the corridors, let's get our excrement and shove it in the teachers' faces until they choke on it. Skip school altogether, party all night and all day long, get pissed, stoned, laid, who cares? Not God, 'cause my diploma's already been lying signed and laminated on his desk for the last two thousand years! He doesn't care what I do! The school of thought you advocate preaches that the single most valuable prize attainable, infinite happiness and contentment for the rest of eternity, doesn't even have to be earned, can't even be forfeited, but is some kind of human right set in stone for Monk, Atheist Hedonist, and High Priest of Satan alike. The 'God you believe in' would have to be perhaps the most lazy, incompetent and, by choosing not to discriminate between those who extol and those who openly break the rules which he supposedly delivered to mankind in person, most discriminatory figures conceivable, and I believe that claiming God's nature to be so is nothing short of blasphemy . It is because of views like yours that the Western, and indeed the entire World in general, is in moral freefall today; and we just keep snipping away at that parachute...

[Mickiel]

[quote=Singh-Song;
and I believe that claiming God's nature to be so is nothing short of blasphemy . It is because of views like yours that the Western, and indeed the entire World in general, is in moral freefall today; and we just keep snipping away at that parachute...[/QUOTE]



I have no religion, I need none. Religion is not required by God to benefit from his Nature. This is the Nature of the God I seek; He is Kind, Joyful, Loving, Peaceful, Patient, Good, Longsuffering, Gentle and has perfect Self Control. All these are his Nature, and these things at the highest levels possible.

And all these are the reasons why all of humanity will be saved.

The world is in a moral freefall because thats what God wanted it to do. Not because humans are evil, but because God created evil and exposed humans to it.

Any religion that does not see this, is simply useless. I, in fact, consider every religion on earth useless, not just yours.

And I think God considers them meaningless also.

Peace.

[Singh-Song]

The world is in a moral freefall because thats what God wanted it to do. Not because humans are evil, but because God created evil and exposed humans to it.

Any religion that does not see this, is simply useless. I, in fact, consider every religion on earth useless, not just yours.

Okay then, if God is Himself responsible for evil's creation, how can it be possible for Him to have all of the values you list in infinite abundance at the same time? He has the best moral values imaginable, but somehow wants the world to be in moral decline? You believe He created evil, and is thereby directly responsible for every sin and evil that ever has or ever will be perpetrated, but that He is perfectly Good, somehow utterly pure and sinless in spite of this? Everything you say is a contradiction, a polar opposite which negates another ultimate value you attribute to Him. In other words, what you are saying is that your concept of God's nature is whatever you find to be most 'useful' for your purposes at the time. God is nothing but a convenient figurehead to you, justifying whatever you want, denouncing whatever you don't. God is not a fictional character to construct as you wish, and He is not some kind of djinni-type slave available at the rub of a lamp, existing only to be of service; not for humanity, and definitely not for your warped agenda alone. Stop treating Him like one!

I have no religion, I need none. Religion is not required by God to benefit from his Nature. This is the Nature of the God I seek; He is Kind, Joyful, Loving, Peaceful, Patient, Good, Longsuffering, Gentle and has perfect Self Control. All these are his Nature, and these things at the highest levels possible.

And all these are the reasons why all of humanity will be saved.

And this kind of freeloading attitude is exactly what I voiced my opinion on in my last post on this forum. Your attitude towards God is like that of most white middle-class Americans have with regard to their parents. The mother gave birth to you, and yet you never listen to a word, do whatever you want with whoever you want regardless of her opinions, ignore her advice, spit in the face of her love for you, refusing to show any form of gratitude because it is your right. You have abandoned religion completely, dumped the woman in an old folks' home and decided never to visit her again, limiting what little contact you have with her to a few minutes a week over the phone. Because She is a kind, gentle, joyful, patient, peaceful, loving soul, you don't care about making her happy, making no attempt to live by the code she would wish or to aspire towards her virtues. All you have ever cared about is how much you can bleed from her, and the reward you get in the will for your occasional lip-service, driven solely by the sin of Greed. You have no real place in your heart for God, and as you are too steadfast in your selfish ways, most likely never will. Do you think God only hears the words, that He/She is blind to the real emotion in your heart, the vice in your thoughts? Be certain, true repentance takes more than simply saying the words out loud in a 'prayer'. If you continue your pre-planned course of waiting until your deathbed to plead forgiveness, I can virtually guarantee that, in the selfish purpose of your intentions, it will already be too late to earn it.
So, yes, I wish you peace. But as long as you keep your contemptuous attitude and egotistical beliefs, eternal life and happiness will always be a step too far...

[Mickiel]

Originally Posted by Singh-Song

So, yes, I wish you peace. But as long as you keep your contemptuous attitude and egotistical beliefs, eternal life and happiness will always be a step too far...

Well I wish you Peace also. I am not a white man, I am a Black Man. And I see God totally different than you, that much is obvious. As far as your prediction that eternal life and happiness will always be a step too far from me, you do not control eternal life, thus your doomful views of my future, are meaningless to me.

It is not up to your views , what becomes of me.

And I would want no part of a religion that teaches people to doom others future, with their opinions.

Still, Peace to you. May you fare well.