The Virgin Mary Visions

[capt_buzzard]

Early in 1988, Cardinal Sin was blaming visions of the Virgin Mary on hunger, saying 'When you are hungry you see visions, so my advice is to eat. When you are not hungry you will not see visions'.
This assertion followed claims that the Blessed Virgin Mary had appeared to crowds in Manila, Philippines. If he had been referring to spiritual rather than physical hunger, the Cardinal's comment might have made more sense.
We must charitably conclude that he was not aware that thousands of people have claimed to have seen visions of the Virgin Mary, of whom only a small proportion are likely to have been hungry at the time. The majority of the witnesses to the visions were Catholics.However, it should not be thought that the Catholic authorities somehow engineer these apparitions, or at least encourage them, in order to increase the devotion of their flock, on the contrary, the Catholic Church is very loth to endorse apparitions, and miracles and cures that follow, and, like Cardinal Sin, attempts to dissuade believers from taking and interest in such events. So these happenings are outside the control of the official Church, and the believers who flock to these places where visions are seen are not doing so with the Church approval.


Whatever the Church thinks about apparitions, they have continued to appear regularly over the decades.The visionary figure is usually the Blessed Virgin Mary in one of her many guises, sometimes alone, sometimes with the infant Jesus, and/or angels and saints. She appears in a wide variety of costumes, details of which are usually minutely remembered by the witnesses.
Witnesses are often children or teenagers, though adults may also witness later visions. She often has messages, sometimes secret, which she tells to chosen recipients. She sometimes provides signs to prove her presence to the faithfull, especially in those cases where only a few chosen witnesses can actually see her.

There is a school of thought which believes all such events to be either hallucinatory or illusionary, and that is 'the loss of loved ones or repressed sexual feelings' which bring about visions of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Whether Catholics are indeed hungrier, more grief-stricken or more starved of sex than other mortals is doubtful.

There are many other well-attested inexplicable phenomena associated with religion and mysticism, such as stigmata, levitation, bodily elongation, the odour of sanctity, prolonged fasting and so on.

Most of these visions have been seen in Europe, the Uniited States and the Far East by Catholics, but also by Muslims too.

[Ted]

Capt

Another example of the churches apparent need to exercise total and complete control.

I once challenged an RC Bishop on the issue of the Eucharist. Needless to say he responded with the most feeble answer I have ever been exposed to. Typical, I think. Once again the Church must remain in complete control. An RC theologian told me that the church must not be exposed to any controvery whatsoever. Thus Cardinal Law ships pedophiles all over North America including Canada.

They can't hide the truth forever. It will come out eventually.

As far as the Eucharist is concerned I have no desire to attend at the table of Rome. I will however, attend at the Lord's table since it is He that has invited me. I was once told in no uncertain terms that I was not welcome at the Roman table and that I should stay away. That is not what Galation's says but that is what the church says. I guess the Roman Church puts the magisterium above the Bible and God.

It's called control, control, control even if you have to mislead.

Shalom
Ted

[Lon]

Interesting!!! I would think that if there was really something to visions, stigmatta etc., that atheists would witness these occurances as well. I mean, isn't that the folks that really need the message? Why do only believers witness such events?

[koan]

Originally Posted by Lon

Interesting!!! I would think that if there was really something to visions, stigmatta etc., that atheists would witness these occurances as well. I mean, isn't that the folks that really need the message? Why do only believers witness such events?

I know people who have become believers after having visions or witnessing apparent miracles. I think it is erroneous to say that only believers witness these events. OTOH I have watched people witness things then immediately deny what they have seen. It happens all the time, even when we are not talking miracles, it's called denial.

[capt_buzzard]

The most important question, as yet unanswered, is whether any external, objective intelligence has a hand in this kind of experience, or whether the visions, encounters, or whatever are solely personal, self-induced events. There are certainly some puzzling factors to be considered. Our Lady's liking for trees and springs is noticeable.Would an uneducated peasant child consciously locate his or her vision in such a spot? The most famous series of visions of the Virgin Mary took place at Fatima, Portugal, beginning in the spring of 1916 when an angel appeared to three children tending sheep. There were two further appearances, and then on May 13th, 1917 they say the Blessed Virgin Mary herself, again while they were watching the sheep. Her arrival was heralded by a flash of lightning, and as they hastily drove the sheep down the hill, fearing a storm, they saw a beautiful and dazzling woman standing in the foliage of a small oak tree. Later apparitions again took place at the oak tree.

Springs are even more important. The famous events at Lourdes, France, which began on the 11th February 1858 at massabielle when Bernadette Soubirous saw a vision of a lady in white, resulted in the water of Lourdes being used for healing up to the present day. Our Lady directed Bernadette to a damp patch of earth in the grotto where she appeared, and at that point a spring arose which soon yielded more than eighteen gallons of water daily, beginning the focal point of the Lourdes shine.

[koan]

Originally Posted by capt_buzzard

The most important question, as yet unanswered, is whether any external, objective intelligence has a hand in this kind of experience, or whether the visions, encounters, or whatever are solely personal, self-induced events. There are certainly some puzzling factors to be considered. Our Lady's liking for trees and springs is noticeable.Would an uneducated peasant child consciously locate his or her vision in such a spot? The most famous series of visions of the Virgin Mary took place at Fatima, Portugal, beginning in the spring of 1916 when an angel appeared to three children tending sheep. There were two further appearances, and then on May 13th, 1917 they say the Blessed Virgin Mary herself, again while they were watching the sheep. Her arrival was heralded by a flash of lightning, and as they hastily drove the sheep down the hill, fearing a storm, they saw a beautiful and dazzling woman standing in the foliage of a small oak tree. Later apparitions again took place at the oak tree.

Springs are even more important. The famous events at Lourdes, France, which began on the 11th February 1858 at massabielle when Bernadette Soubirous saw a vision of a lady in white, resulted in the water of Lourdes being used for healing up to the present day. Our Lady directed Bernadette to a damp patch of earth in the grotto where she appeared, and at that point a spring arose which soon yielded more than eighteen gallons of water daily, beginning the focal point of the Lourdes shine.

This is very interesting. What is the source?

[Lon]

Originally Posted by koan

I know people who have become believers after having visions or witnessing apparent miracles. I think it is erroneous to say that only believers witness these events. OTOH I have watched people witness things then immediately deny what they have seen. It happens all the time, even when we are not talking miracles, it's called denial.

"I think it is erroneous to say that only believers witness these events."

I didn't say that.

[capt_buzzard]

Originally Posted by koan

This is very interesting. What is the source?

Modern Mysteries magazine in Ireland

[koan]

Originally Posted by Lon

"I think it is erroneous to say that only believers witness these events."

I didn't say that.

Um, actually:

Originally Posted by Lon

Why do only believers witness such events?

You did.

[koan]

Originally Posted by capt_buzzard

Modern Mysteries magazine in Ireland

Thanks. Sounds like a good mag.