Living without God.

[Mickiel]

Originally Posted by jupiter

You are a seeker and as it says "Seek and you will find"perhaps in letting go of pre conceived ideas is the beginning of findind real truth and that you really do have the spirit within.It's not always as we think and as Christ says" I give but not as the world gives".I had to free myself from the bondage of religious conditioning and found freedom and found what God was and was not!Peace is a great place to be!

I can agree with washing ones self free of religion, that certainly is the beginning of wisdom. But if you understand the bible, then you can understand when you have Gods Spirit, and when you do not. I have read what it would be like to have Gods Spirit, the bible is clear on how a person would be. I am not that way, I clearly understand that I am without. Yet I believe with all my heart, this post is about just that, a believer having to live without God. Having to wait on him, and not jumping ahead of yourself and making false claims.

Peace.

[jupiter]

Good on you,that reminds me of a quote from shakespeare"To thine own self be true then thou canst be false to any man".
Living in the truth is the best thing we can do for ourselves and others.
Peace to you.

[Mickiel]

Originally Posted by jupiter

Good on you,that reminds me of a quote from shakespeare"To thine own self be true then thou canst be false to any man".
Living in the truth is the best thing we can do for ourselves and others.
Peace to you.

Well yes, I again agree with you. Being true to yourself is the best form of humility, and from humility, God will bring progression to you. You won't outpace what God is doing. Jump out ahead and get " Ahead of your REAL self image." I usec to call it the " Emperors Robe Syndrome", people believing themselves, or others, as " Being so Spiritual", thinking they are clothed in righteousness, when really they are naked. They refuse to live without God, or cannot wait on their change.

Reminds me of an old quote I heard years ago; " I am not what I ought to be, I am not what I am going to be, but I do thank God I am not what I used to be." Contained within this statement is reality of what you really are, belief in what you one day will be, and humility and thankfulness that you are at least " Growing while you are waiting to be matured."

The real question is;" Does the Potter has a right over the Clay?" To use you " How and When he will." Romans 9:21. Many are called, few are chosen, and this does NOT mean those not chosen will never be chosen. Those now chosen are just the " Firstfruits", first wave of humans. The rest must live without God for now.

And I want to go into Living without God, so these can know its not all over if you do not yet have God. Its not embarrising, its not condemnation. You know, what really bothers me is this; We have some who have been called,( not chosen, just called) and what are they now doing? Their running around condemning those who have not been called. Its like a child saying to another child; Ha Ha, I made it, and you didn't!

Something is seriously wrong with that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

I am basically content with living without God, until my time of change comes. I see so many believers floating from church to church, religion to religion, trying to " Find the Fix, that fixes their lifes content." And I refuse to do that. The bible clearly shows that God will come to you, when your time comes, you cannot just walk up to him. John 6:44.

Somewhere in the past, humans got the impression that we obtain salvation by our works, or our right living, our right choices, our decision to " Come to Jesus." And salvation became a thing of human choice in our belief. Nothing could be further from the truth, salvation is the real destiny of all humans, its really Gods " Free Gift." So through this misunderstanding, believers are " Rushing to find God", feel preasured to " Be annointed", to the point of claiming that through strong illusions in their minds. Literally " Taking the calling by the force of their belief." And they are not really converted by the Spirit of God, they are converted by their church.

Afraid to live without God, until God comes, and he has promised to come. The hell doctrine has scared the daylights out of people, pressuring them to assume the things of God are in them now.

It is once appointed for a human to be called by God, and every human will receive this calling. Its not a calling that gives them a choice, God does not " Ask if you will see it his way", he simply gives you a new mindset which totally is committed to him.

And knowing that you have NOT received that from God, is nothing to be ashamed of, you just need to know your time will come, perhaps not even in this lifetime. Don't try to be what you are not.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

In Psalms 37:23;" The steps of a man are established by the Lord." This means that our life, our current condition, our beliefs, all are established by God, not our own will. God is just that powerful, just that much in control. 119:133, " Establish my footsteps in thy Word, and do not let any sin have dominion over me." This is how believers come to be believers, and its conversely how non believers, are unbelievers. God ordained it to be so. We are locked into patterns that God has ordained for us to be in. Notice Jermiah 10:23;" I know, O Lord, that a mans way is not in himself; Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his own steps."

Free will is not the key to Salvation, Gods will is. It is NOT within our own will to direct ourselves to the truth. Its not in unbelievers, to create within themselves to believe. Its just not there, which is why God is not judgeing them.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

Originally Posted by Mickiel

In Psalms 37:23;" The steps of a man are established by the Lord." This means that our life, our current condition, our beliefs, all are established by God, not our own will. God is just that powerful, just that much in control. 119:133, " Establish my footsteps in thy Word, and do not let any sin have dominion over me." This is how believers come to be believers, and its conversely how non believers, are unbelievers. God ordained it to be so. We are locked into patterns that God has ordained for us to be in. Notice Jermiah 10:23;" I know, O Lord, that a mans way is not in himself; Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his own steps."

Free will is not the key to Salvation, Gods will is. It is NOT within our own will to direct ourselves to the truth. Its not in unbelievers, to create within themselves to believe. Its just not there, which is why God is not judgeing them.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Jesus in John 5:30;" I can do Nothing on my own will. As I hear, I judge; and my judgement is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the Will of him who sent me." Here Jesus himself just comes right out and claims his Will is not free, that he never does his own Will, but only the Fathers. If Jesus will is not free from God, then certainly no human will is independant from God.

All things that exist are ruled and Predetermined by the plans and foreknowledge of God, Acts 2:23. So if a person is an unbeliever, its only because God has willed them to be so, its not their fault. And conversely, if a person believes, they only do so by the will of God, so they cannot glory in their belief as if it was " Their Will" to do so. But the Pride of Life has " Swept up believers", and they think it was their choice to believe. Conversely to some unbelievers, they have a sense of doom, thinking because they are without God, its their fault or choice.

Nothing could be further from the truth. And I want to go into that.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

One of the most common approaches to most religions is very simple: the " Good" make it and the " Bad" do not. This theme is interwoven into our belief systems, good living is rewarded by " The Creator", and bad living is punished by him. An although I never would have thought in my wildess dreams I would come to this point, I can no longer accept that theme as the explination of what the Creator has done to humans, and is now doing to humans. So I reject the premise.

I cannot accept that there is a " Great War" going on between good and evil, nor that the Creator has established that war. Evil has won far too many of those wars, and engulfed far too many humans. A being of the Creators capabilitys, such a senerio would lead to far too many " Casualitys" amoung unsuspecting humans, so there is no great war. I don't think ANY power even remotely approaches the power of the Creator anyway. War is only reasonable when one side has the power to fight the other. And thats what gets to me, evil only affects humans, it does not effect God, who surely must have created " The Oppisition" anyway. We only suffer from evil, not God. Evil cannot defeat God, it can only do that to humans.

So it remains to reason that God MUST protect his creation from evil, which is more powerful than us anyway. Or is he somehow " Using evil" in our development? Why would God need evil to develop humanity? Jesus was born straight through the conception of the Holy Spirit, when he was reborn on earth. God could have done that to all of humanity, why didn't he?

And I want to go into these things.

Peace.

[Mickiel]

One thing I am fastly approaching in a sad realization: that all my life has been basically lived without God. The greatest power that I can reconize looking back on my life, because often hindsight is better than fore sight, has been sin. Its grip on me has been dominant, and negative. Not that God has never did anything for me, I am sure he has, behind the scenes. I mean, if you are merely alive, that within itself is a great gift from God. But I have never personally known God, and have ALWAYS desired to.

I thought I had met him in each religion I had tried. Baptist, Catholic, Jehovahs Witnesses, 7 day Adventist, Non denominational, the Worldwide Church of God and Universalism. None of these ever panned out for me, and some lasted for years. A group can only take you as far as they have been, and no further, if you place your trust in that group. Over and over again I tried to find God and the Truth, through other people. I finally grew tired of that, and now I walk alone. Asking God to teach me himself, I don't want to learn through people anymore.

The beliefs that are in my mind now, either they come from God, come from evil, or My imagination creates them itself. This is still confusing, but at least other people are out of the mix, and I like that much of it. If I am destined to be a fool, then let me be one by myself.

I think I am really surprised at my current understanding, because I NEVER thought the things I believe now could ever be true. Because I suspect that not only I, but everyonelse is living without God. I hope I am wrong about this, but it grows within me. The reason WHy churchs are fadeing, the reason Why evil is growing, the reason Why the youth of the world are continually uninterested in God, is really, probally, that God is just not here on earth. And the world suffers because of that. My life suffers because of that. Your church has troubles because of that. Your understanding of God is limited because of that.

Now we can pacify ourselves and pretend that God is here, through human emotion and nebulous doctrines. God is not here now, and has not been to earth in thousands of years. Thats why the earth itself is suffering. Well Jesus came for a relatively short 33 years, then he left. He has not returned either. But he promised to send the " Holy Spirit", to accompany " Believers" until his return.

So the world has been living without God AND Jesus, and we suffer because of that. We need them more than we even know and understand. We need our Creator and our Lord, both personally in our lives, and in our world community. Left to ourselves, eventually we'll just kill each other.

So the Holy Spirit is the ONLY remnant of God left to this world, and the bible. So if God gives you this Holy Spirit, THEN you can understand the bible, the truth, even God and Jesus themselves. If he does not give it, I hate to say this, but basically your screwed. Now I am saying this from the view I have, I myself am screwed, I don't have Gods Spirit, and I can't tell anyone how they can " Get It". Because Its impossble to " Get it", it must be given.

What Gods technique or conditions of giving it to whomever he does, I have very little ideals. I just know that I am living without him. You look back at your life and see how you have falled prey to the same things, over and over again. Like a viscious cycle that keeps hurting you, trapping you, enslaving you, and you keep trying, but your effort just never seems to reach that point which the bible speaks of, Peace, Victory, Perfection.

I grow so tired of this. I long and beg for God to release me. And yet, I must live on without him.

Peace.

[oscar]

Originally Posted by abbey

I live without god and I get along just fine.

You have a god Abbey...... FERGIE

[Mickiel]

Have you ever seen someone who would rather that a relationship suffer, than to make the changes it would take to improve it? Or to embrace the ugly truth about themselves, instead of trying to get another to live a lie with you? Well I think this is what many people are doing with God. Rather than admit the reality of your relationship with him, you would rather use your life as an example of what God can do to a human, and expect others to accept your illusion. And I think most churchs on earth are just groups of believers who have done this.

And I want to go into this
"Groupie of believers" mentality, and how it has formed very strong traditional lines of illusion.

Peace.