The Islamic History Of Europe

[Bill Sikes]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

Sigh.. yes. I suppose we should enjoy the fact that FG seems less dead at the moment. (..) Personally, I'm a bit hohum about one newbie erecting himself a gigantic soapbox from which to get in all our faces.

"Follows the path" of these discussions exactly. ICBA lately, because of the verbiage. 'Swotappens.

[Chockygirl]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

Sigh.. yes. I suppose we should enjoy the fact that FG seems less dead at the moment. And it's Christmas/Hannukah/Eid for at least one of our Eminent Gardeners. Personally, I'm a bit hohum about one newbie erecting himself a gigantic soapbox from which to get in all our faces. Dialogue takes two, both able to listen as well as preach. Anyway, I don't subscribe too much these days to narrow man-constructed religious rules of any flavour. When I said this early on, I was immediately accused of being an atheist and offered private counselling. Religion has, in my humble opinion which I won't force down anyone's throat, given God/Allah/Yahwey a bad name.

Yes,it's really interesting and a learning experience with having various folk here of different nationalities and beliefs.
However,while I'm more than happy to be educated in aspects of different cultures, I don't wish to have religious mantra literally forced down my throat.
As far as I'm concerned,there's nothing wrong with being an atheist.
More atrocities,imo, in this world have been instigated under the banner of one religion or another.

[Abram Is Muslim]

Originally Posted by gmc

Seen it, it is a BBC documentary after all. Are you aware of how much interaction there actually was in the so called dark ages?

VIKINGS IN THE EAST_Remarkable Eyewitness Accounts

The Georgian Mameluks in Egypt



There was also trade with china and india. The spreading of ideas has not been one way nor did islam or judaism spring up in isolation form the rest of humanity. Good grief the celts even get a mention in the bible and I think the koran as well but i'm not sure. Without the european talent for war and the trading of iron for weapons perhaps the shape of the middle east would be very different indeed.

The more you dig in to it the more you realise we really are all Jock Tamson's Bairns and religion is a divisive force in the world not a unifying one.

I wish You can Read about ( Al Andalus )

[Abram Is Muslim]

Originally Posted by Chockygirl

Yes,it's really interesting and a learning experience with having various folk here of different nationalities and beliefs.
However,while I'm more than happy to be educated in aspects of different cultures, I don't wish to have religious mantra literally forced down my throat.
As far as I'm concerned,there's nothing wrong with being an atheist.
More atrocities,imo, in this world have been instigated under the banner of one religion or another.

We were discussing that point on Muslim on board

[Abram Is Muslim]

BBC Documentary Series. Physicist Jim Al-Khalili travels through Syria, Iran, Tunisia and Spain to tell the story of the great leap in scientific knowledge that took place in the Islamic world between the 8th and 14th centuries ...


Watch it Here------------------------->

[Betty Boop]

Originally Posted by AussiePam

Sigh.. yes. I suppose we should enjoy the fact that FG seems less dead at the moment. And it's Christmas/Hannukah/Eid for at least one of our Eminent Gardeners. Personally, I'm a bit hohum about one newbie erecting himself a gigantic soapbox from which to get in all our faces. Dialogue takes two, both able to listen as well as preach. Anyway, I don't subscribe too much these days to narrow man-constructed religious rules of any flavour. When I said this early on, I was immediately accused of being an atheist and offered private counselling. Religion has, in my humble opinion which I won't force down anyone's throat, given God/Allah/Yahwey a bad name.

All of these posts are in the relevant forums, if you don't like the subject don't go there. You may not like it but I'm enjoying trying to view things from another perspective, rather than just the western 'construct' we have on the eastern world.

[Abram Is Muslim]

Muslims Contribution to Science



What is the contribution of the Islamic civilization to science? In the Western world’s account of history, the contribution of the Muslim civilization is usually ignored. Even when it is recogniz…

You Can Watch it Online from here---------------------->

[Bill Sikes]

Originally Posted by Abram Is Muslim

What is the contribution of the Islamic civilization to science? In the Western world’s account of history, the contribution of the Muslim civilization is usually ignored.

No, it isn't. I am beginning to rapidly lose faith in the accuracy of your postings.

[Abram Is Muslim]

Originally Posted by Bill Sikes

No, it isn't. I am beginning to rapidly lose faith in the accuracy of your postings.

Among the scolars it aint , butin another places it almost hidden or ignored , like many Media , try to talk about the conflict of cultures , rather than the complementing of them

[gmc]

Originally Posted by Abram Is Muslim

I wish You can Read about ( Al Andalus )

You make the assumption you are telling us things we don't already know. Did you look at the links I posted? Who knows without the viking connection perhaps the islamic empires would have failed. It was European warriors not arab ones that stopped the mongols and helped make Egypt what it is today.

By the time of the Mameluks, the arabization of Egypt must have been complete. Arabic was the language of the bureaucracy since the early 8th Century and the language of religion and culture even longer. The specific Mameluk contribution to Arabic culture lay above all in their military achievement. By defeating the Mongols (battle of Ain Jalut, 3 September, 1260), the Mameluks provided a shelter in Syria and in Egypt for Muslims fleeing from Mongol devastation. Though, the extent of this haven was narrowed by subsequent Mongol attacks against Syria, one of which led to a brief Mongol occupation of Damascus in 1294-95, so that Egypt received an influx of refugees from Syria itself as well as from areas farther east. Concrete evidence of the stimulus the Mameluks gave to cultural life can be found chiefly in the fields of architecture and historiography. Dozens of public buildings erected under Mameluk patronage are still standing in Cairo and include mosques, colleges, hospitals, monasteries, and caravansaries. Historical writing under the Mameluks was equally monumental, in the form of immense chronicles, philosophical tractates and other works.

You live in a country that has a distinct culture and identity courtesy of Christians taken from their homes by force. Perhaps you should stop kidding yourself islamic civilisation has a claim to the moral high ground-a hubris you seem only too ready to accuse Christians of. It's the clash of cultures and the sharing of ideas that allow for progress. It works both ways, if you want people to listen and read your posts you need to reciprocate.

You share one thing in common with Christians-you assume someone who is not religious is unaware or hasn't thought about it and just needs to find god and their particular religion has all the right answers. The reality is very different.


posted by aussie pam

What is amazing to me, gmc, is that when religion became totally dominant - and I'm not referring to one religion more than another here - scholarship and learning declined, or rather was diverted into the minutiae of scriptural interpretation and legalistic trivialities - is it permissible to press a lift button on the sabbath, is it okay to show half an inch of female ankle, how many angels can you fit on a pinhead, creationism. Totalitarian relgion stifled science, free speech, free movement, debate, education.

For religion to prosper it has to trample reason and freedom to think-the best way of course being to control access to education and what books and ideas are readily available. Monotheism by it's very nature is totalitarian, if it allows other religions or even the idea that religion is unnecessary to exist then it leaves open the possibility that faith might be questioned. Faith has to be blind and unreasoning which is perhaps why so many religious people are incapable of discussing their faith without quoting vast screeds from the bible or koran. It saves them thinking. Religious fanatics would destroy everything to remake things the way they think it should be all in the name of religion.

Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the Divine Word...." - Martin Luther

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God." - Martin Luther

"The damned whore Reason...." - Martin Luther

On other words don't think-just believe. If you think the devil wins and you go to hell-a concept I always suspect was pinched from the pagans.