The Islamic History Of Europe

[Abram Is Muslim]

Originally Posted by Clodhopper

Thinkers living in Islamic cultures gave Europeans eg the concept of zero. Thinkers living in Christian cultures gave Muslims eg the concept of germ theory. I'm not clear that either has much to do with religion. What IS certain is that religious wars lead to enormous amounts of death.

What I know more , that the church role in Europe was almost frozen since the begining of the 19th century , and starting from that date , the Athiests had everything , and Europe made the East suffer, just read about the occupion of the Eastern Counteries by the Athiests Europians , I think the religions has nothing to do with bombing Japan with nuclear weapons, the religions had nothing to do , when Athiest leaders like Sadam killed thousands of his nation..................

Stop blaming the religions for the huminity mistakes , its about the closed minded persons , not the religions....

anyways there is a topic called the Modern science prove Islam , I wish You can go there and discuss in logic and science...Peace for You

[gmc]

Originally Posted by Abram Is Muslim

What I know more , that the church role in Europe was almost frozen since the begining of the 19th century , and starting from that date , the Athiests had everything , and Europe made the East suffer, just read about the occupion of the Eastern Counteries by the Athiests Europians , I think the religions has nothing to do with bombing Japan with nuclear weapons, the religions had nothing to do , when Athiest leaders like Sadam killed thousands of his nation..................

Stop blaming the religions for the huminity mistakes , its about the closed minded persons , not the religions....

anyways there is a topic called the Modern science prove Islam , I wish You can go there and discuss in logic and science...Peace for You

It seems you have your own collection of misconceptions and opinions that you are not prepared to have challenged or even think about. A closed mind is a wonderful thing secure in it's own wall of prejudices. That the european empires ended up defeating the islamic ones is a historical fact. The reasons are many and varied and have bugger all to do with atheism, or even christianity come to that. What relevance does that have? Saddam was a muslim-perhaps not particularly devout but a Muslim nonetheless.

Perhaps if muslims had been less interested in fighting each other things might have turned out differently who knows.

[Abram Is Muslim]

Originally Posted by gmc

It seems you have your own collection of misconceptions and opinions that you are not prepared to have challenged or even think about. A closed mind is a wonderful thing secure in it's own wall of prejudices. That the european empires ended up defeating the islamic ones is a historical fact. The reasons are many and varied and have bugger all to do with atheism, or even christianity come to that. What relevance does that have? Saddam was a muslim-perhaps not particularly devout but a Muslim nonetheless.

Perhaps if muslims had been less interested in fighting each other things might have turned out differently who knows.

If Sadam was Muslim, then Hitlar was a pope

[spot]

Originally Posted by Abram Is Muslim

If Sadam was Muslim, then Hitlar was a pope

Oh come now, of course Saddam was Muslim. What possible meaning does Muslim have that would exclude him?

[Abram Is Muslim]

Originally Posted by spot

Oh come now, of course Saddam was Muslim. What possible meaning does Muslim have that would exclude him?

Whole the teachings of Islam he never followed one, well

many presidents in our area are Muslims by names, here no One has the name Athist in his ID, the IDs are Muslims or Christians , no place for Athist here in Ids at least,

I dont know if my point was clear,

and about the Muslims fighting each others, then Mr GMC what was the first and the second world wide war , and what about the wear of the hundred years...

[spot]

Originally Posted by Abram Is Muslim

Whole the teachings of Islam he never followed one, well

I think you're being unduly harsh and judgemental. Consider his final letter. I'd find it difficult to say they're the words of an unbeliever.

I'll take the text from Saddam&squo;s final words | The Daily Telegraph but I note in particular this passage:

Remember that God has enabled you to become an example of love, forgiveness and brotherly co-existence... I call on you not to hate because hate does not leave a space for a person to be fair and it makes you blind and closes all doors of thinking and keeps away one from balanced thinking and making the right choice ... I also call on you not to hate the peoples of the other countries that attacked us and differentiate between the decision-makers and peoples... Anyone who repents - whether in Iraq or abroad - you must forgive him...

[AussiePam]

I think there's some linguistic misconceptions here.

It's very tempting to make one's own religious definition. A True Muslim is a Muslim who holds the tenets of Islam in exactly the way you do. A True Christian is a Christian who believes exactly the way I do... etc... In reality, believers probably sit on different points of a belief scale... down to those who say they are Muslim or Christian or Jewish or whatever in a non-practising, but cultural feel way.

In this Forum, committed Christians argue amongst themselves about the meaning of their faith, and disagree often.

I know there are also many kinds of Muslim believers, and this is reflected clearly in the islamic population of Australia - we have shiites, sunnis, many kinds of Middle Eastern muslims, and even more Asians.

There are a lot of people who are just plain uncertain and are really agnostics- they aren't sure one way or the other whether there is a God. Or they think there could be, but don't really care.

To be an atheist, you need to believe most strongly that there is no God. Many people I know strongly believe that there is a God, but that He/She is bigger than the interpretations of any one religion. They are not infidels or unbelievers. And they are absolutely not atheists.

An old priest I knew years ago said that he thought of God in the centre of a huge wheel, with many spokes...and on the outer rim were all religions of the world.. It's just an illustration but he saw people searching for God moving, as they grew in holiness, slowly towards the centre.. and as they moved closer to their idea of God in the centre, they also moved closer to each other, till they were all one in enlightenment.

[Zapata]

Very well said. I like the illustration by the old priet.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by Abram Is Muslim

Whole the teachings of Islam he never followed one, well

many presidents in our area are Muslims by names, here no One has the name Athist in his ID, the IDs are Muslims or Christians , no place for Athist here in Ids at least,

I dont know if my point was clear,

and about the Muslims fighting each others, then Mr GMC what was the first and the second world wide war , and what about the wear of the hundred years...

They weren't religious wars although the ottoman empire was involved they weren't exactly fighting for the Muslim cause were they?

The hundred years war was several hundred years earlier as were most of europes religious wars. we kind of fought out all the differences and stopped fighting over religion finding other things as a main reason to go to war over. No one is disputing that christians had religious wars amongst themselves, indeed I live in a country where being a catholic in the wrong pub at the wrong time can still result in getting your head Kicked in.

The muslim empires are just as violent as any christian one ever was. What was the iran iraq war then? sunni against shia with god cheering on both sides. Sectarian warfare is the most brutal of all and muslims are just as prone to it. Your moral high ground is an illusion.