Defacing of Bible: Art???

[OpenMind]

Originally Posted by gmc

Posted by openmind


I don't think Bill Sikes was being derogatory and I didn't find it offensive. Not being religious I do not equate someone disagreeing with me or asking what I am playing at as being a personal attack. He's right I do like discussing religion and politics. There is no point being on a discussion forum unless it is to discuss things with people whose attitudes and beliefs you do not share. At least that is my viewpoint.

As you wish, GMC. I still stand by what I said that his comment didn't contribute to the thread's subject matter.

[mikeinie]

True, but that is the same as saying that any publicity is good publicity. It the difference between fame and notoriety, just like many of the ‘celebrities’ these days who are people who have done nothing but be in the public spot light for a few weeks (ie Big Brother contestants, & other reality tv short lived personalities).

The fact that it has triggered a response does not make it art, it makes it news worthy, the fact that this guy has been in the papers for what he did does not make him an artist, it just gives publicity to his vulgar display.

[OpenMind]

Originally Posted by mikeinie

True, but that is the same as saying that any publicity is good publicity. It the difference between fame and notoriety, just like many of the ‘celebrities’ these days who are people who have done nothing but be in the public spot light for a few weeks (ie Big Brother contestants, & other reality tv short lived personalities).

The fact that it has triggered a response does not make it art, it makes it news worthy, the fact that this guy has been in the papers for what he did does not make him an artist, it just gives publicity to his vulgar display.

It is true that his 'props' were simple. A Bible and a container of pens. But the artist did leave a set of instructions and it is clear that no one who wrote comments on the Bible followed those instructions.
As for what constitutes art, it is rather like what constitutes beauty - it is in the eye of the beholder. To me, good art evokes an emotional response and it seems to me that the display certainly did that.

The word 'art' has a very wide definition. I thought I might add here the definition given in Dictionary.com:
art

–noun 1.the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.2.the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection. 3.a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art. 4.the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture. 5.any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art. 6.(in printed matter) illustrative or decorative material: Is there any art with the copy for this story? 7.the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling. 8.the craft or trade using these principles or methods.9.skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation. 10.a branch of learning or university study, esp. one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature.11.arts, a.(used with a singular verb) the humanities: a college of arts and sciences. b.(used with a plural verb) liberal arts. 12.skilled workmanship, execution, or agency, as distinguished from nature.13.trickery; cunning: glib and devious art. 14.studied action; artificiality in behavior.15.an artifice or artful device: the innumerable arts and wiles of politics. 16.Archaic. science, learning, or scholarship.

Origin:
1175–1225; ME < OF, acc. of ars < L ars (nom.), artem (acc.)

[cigar898]

Originally Posted by gmc

It's a book for goodness sake. If someone ripping up your book somehow makes you less of a Christian you probably weren't much of one to begin with. Given the propensity of the church to go in for book burning and trying to stop things being published I don't suppose they are capable of appreciating the irony of their complaining. People who take the bible and the koran literally are some of the most dangerous people on the planet.

Whether it is art or not is another question perhaps. I won't be going to see it.

Yes we should do it to the koran as well. It's ridiculous that religion can demand that people be imprisoned for daring to treat a book with disrespect. It is the contents that matter not the container, if the message is really that vital it will not be lost.

It's a free country-don't go to the exhibition if it bothers you that much.

I agree, it's just a book. If someone tore it up in front of me I would be more upset on the loss of money than anything else. It's the same with burning the US Flag. But on the other hand.......try tearing up a Koran in Afghanistan or Iran and see what happens......the Bible is just a vessel to get the word of God in your heart

[luciferjohn]

Originally Posted by mikeinie

In Glasgow this week there was an ‘art’ exhibition in which people were allowed to deface a bible and write whatever they wanted on it, which included swearing, and anything else you wanted. Included in the exhibition was a video of a young woman tearing paged from a bible and stuffing her bra with them.
As many of you know, I have expressed my religious beliefs here, which even I have not yet even defined. I am not an atheist, but I do not believe in earthly religious institutions, but this does not mean that I do not respect them, which I do.
I guess the first question is: is this really art? I mean come on, defacing a religions holy book considered art?

The second question is this: How did the Catholic religion get to the point where there is no respect shown and displayed so openly and have such a minimal response. Can you imagine if this artist did this to the Koran? He would be dead by now along with his wife and his kids… If it was done to the Torah there would be cries of anti-Semitism, but do this to the Catholic Church and nothing…

I think that this ‘art; display is disgusting, disrespectful of people’s beliefs and never should have been allowed.

i wonder if this idea is a good one, lets let people who are not of our faith write on our holy book??

and people say im dumb

[spot]

Originally Posted by luciferjohn

i wonder if this idea is a good one, lets let people who are not of our faith write on our holy book??

and people say im dumb

The more a person's willing to react in anger the more easy it is to provoke that person. It's a weakness, not a strength. Consider how Osama bin Laden's destroyed the USA with practically no resources at all, simply because they couldn't bring themselves to react rationally to a criminal act.

[luciferjohn]

Originally Posted by spot

The more a person's willing to react in anger the more easy it is to provoke that person. It's a weakness, not a strength. Consider how Osama bin Laden's destroyed the USA with practically no resources at all, simply because they couldn't bring themselves to react rationally to a criminal act.

true i was just pointing out that knowing the flaws with humanity, it wasnt a very well thought out plan, considering most people automaticly, argue with or despise an opposing view point, i think rationale for the most part is something we as humans still dont have a ful grasp on.

[spot]

Originally Posted by luciferjohn

i think rationale for the most part is something we as humans still dont have a ful grasp on.

Speak for yourself.

[luciferjohn]

Originally Posted by spot

Speak for yourself.

[Mariposa Traicionera]

I'm coming in late to this discussion. I personally don't find it fits my definition of 'art,' but neither do I find it offensive. I definitely feel it should be allowed, as it falls under free speech.