Defacing of Bible: Art???

[mikeinie]

In Glasgow this week there was an ‘art’ exhibition in which people were allowed to deface a bible and write whatever they wanted on it, which included swearing, and anything else you wanted. Included in the exhibition was a video of a young woman tearing paged from a bible and stuffing her bra with them.
As many of you know, I have expressed my religious beliefs here, which even I have not yet even defined. I am not an atheist, but I do not believe in earthly religious institutions, but this does not mean that I do not respect them, which I do.
I guess the first question is: is this really art? I mean come on, defacing a religions holy book considered art?

The second question is this: How did the Catholic religion get to the point where there is no respect shown and displayed so openly and have such a minimal response. Can you imagine if this artist did this to the Koran? He would be dead by now along with his wife and his kids… If it was done to the Torah there would be cries of anti-Semitism, but do this to the Catholic Church and nothing…

I think that this ‘art; display is disgusting, disrespectful of people’s beliefs and never should have been allowed.

Gallery’s invitation to deface the Bible brings obscene response -Times Online

[hoppy]

That only reinforces my belief that the closer to end times we get, the more barbaric and idiotic people behave.

[buttercup]

Well i would not say it was 'Art' but i'm often confused as to the definition of art. Ive seen paintings sell for thousands that i believe i could have done just as good a job of

I think yes it is disrespectful to religious people's beliefs but if others feel they need to publicly write eg: 'i'm gay and proud' in a bible because the bible disrespects them, well, who's really wrong there.

[Bruv]

It has nothing to do with religion, although it is using the Bible as its 'canvas'.
It is all about respect, which strangely is what the bible and most other religions teaches, it is also a reaction to the uproar over the koran.

It just proves we have no moral direction these days, whatever moral code you adopt it is better than the absence of any code.

[gmc]

It's a book for goodness sake. If someone ripping up your book somehow makes you less of a Christian you probably weren't much of one to begin with. Given the propensity of the church to go in for book burning and trying to stop things being published I don't suppose they are capable of appreciating the irony of their complaining. People who take the bible and the koran literally are some of the most dangerous people on the planet.

Whether it is art or not is another question perhaps. I won't be going to see it.

Yes we should do it to the koran as well. It's ridiculous that religion can demand that people be imprisoned for daring to treat a book with disrespect. It is the contents that matter not the container, if the message is really that vital it will not be lost.

It's a free country-don't go to the exhibition if it bothers you that much.

[mikeinie]

Originally Posted by Bruv

It has nothing to do with religion, although it is using the Bible as its 'canvas'.
It is all about respect, which strangely is what the bible and most other religions teaches, it is also a reaction to the uproar over the koran.

It just proves we have no moral direction these days, whatever moral code you adopt it is better than the absence of any code.

Good reply

[mikeinie]

Originally Posted by gmc

It's a book for goodness sake. If someone ripping up your book somehow makes you less of a Christian you probably weren't much of one to begin with. Given the propensity of the church to go in for book burning and trying to stop things being published I don't suppose they are capable of appreciating the irony of their complaining. People who take the bible and the koran literally are some of the most dangerous people on the planet.

Whether it is art or not is another question perhaps. I won't be going to see it.

Yes we should do it to the koran as well. It's ridiculous that religion can demand that people be imprisoned for daring to treat a book with disrespect. It is the contents that matter not the container, if the message is really that vital it will not be lost.

It's a free country-don't go to the exhibition if it bothers you that much.

Interesting, and I generally agree with you.

I am not sure if the last question was a general one, or directed to me.

I did not go see it, and would not go see it, however it does not bother me that much either, I was wondering more how it doesn’t seem to bother those who hold the bible as sacred that much, when other religions would be protesting in the streets. But maybe that is the fundamental difference between the Catholic Religion and others, more tolerance. (by comparison to other religions that is.)

[Bill Sikes]

Originally Posted by gmc

It's a book for goodness sake. snip
Yes we should do it to the koran as well. It's ridiculous that religion can demand that people be imprisoned for daring to treat a book with disrespect. It is the contents that matter not the container, if the message is really that vital it will not be lost.
It's a free country-don't go to the exhibition if it bothers you that much.

It's also, to many people, a way of life - regardless of which religion you talk about. To disrupt someone's way of life by insulting what they believe is unpleasant. If you think this should be done to any holy books, try going into a community of believers, & deface their book. Come to that, try going to America, and defacing a flag, or something. Youd soon find out who's got the right of it.

You'r usually against the effects that you believe religions have on people's lives - and here you are recommending that people make the differences worse. You can't have it both ways.

[hoppy]

If it were only "just a book" then why not use a dictionary? The bible, in this case, is a symbol of the beliefs of a great many people. To do that is crapping in their faces and should be treated as such.

[gmc]

Originally Posted by mikeinie

Interesting, and I generally agree with you.

I am not sure if the last question was a general one, or directed to me.

I did not go see it, and would not go see it, however it does not bother me that much either, I was wondering more how it doesn’t seem to bother those who hold the bible as sacred that much, when other religions would be protesting in the streets. But maybe that is the fundamental difference between the Catholic Religion and others, more tolerance. (by comparison to other religions that is.)

No it was a general one.

posted by bill sikes

It's also, to many people, a way of life - regardless of which religion you talk about. To disrupt someone's way of life by insulting what they believe is unpleasant. If you think this should be done to any holy books, try going into a community of believers, & deface their book. Come to that, try going to America, and defacing a flag, or something. Youd soon find out who's got the right of it.

You'r usually against the effects that you believe religions have on people's lives - and here you are recommending that people make the differences worse. You can't have it both ways.
Today 03:23 PM

How does it disrupt their way of life? They don't have to go see it. Besides when it comes to religion why is it unacceptable to say you find the beliefs ridiculous yet the church feels free to disparage other religious belief as it sees fit. Just look at some of the comments made by so called Christians about followers of that false god Allah. Being Glasgow of course there is the perennial dispute between the orange order and that idolatrous church of Rome. They fight over whether it is right to worship an image or not and complain when outsiders object when their bigotry spills on to the streets. The free church of course looks down it's nose at everybody.

The church for instance (as in some of it's follower generally in this case) feels it has the right to try and ban the teaching of evolution in schools-particularly, it seems, in america-and ride roughshod over the beliefs of non-believers. Some even believe if you are not a Christian you cannot be a trustworthy person. Non-believers have as much right to try and prevent the teaching of mythology as fact as believers have to teach their mythology as if it was true. The biggest difference is in a secular society the churches are free to proselytise as much as they want. Given the power many so called Christians would have us all on our knees praying to god whether people want to or not.

If Christians want to burn copies of the theory of evolution by all means let them. It won't make the words on the pages any less valuable.

I wouldn't actually insult someone's religious beliefs. However, if those same believers take anyone not sharing their beliefs and expressing the opinion that it is a load of bunkum as an insult then I'm afraid that is their problem. If I disagreed with their political beliefs that would not be taken as a personal insult and it would in no way affect their ability to continue with their belief. If a religious person calls me idiot and tells me I am going to hell should I take offence at the personal insult? Should I belt him one do you think? Yet I am supposed to accept their right to jail me for blasphemy or apologise for insulting their religion.

This idea that expressing a non belief in a particular religion is somehow an insult is a ridiculous one. It's also a dangerous one. We have gone past the days when religious dissenters got burned at the stake. it would be a great pity if we allow it to creep back in by the back door. OK so burning at the stake might not occur nowadays but that kind of mentality is still with us and it's a baleful one we shouldn't allow room to grow.

I have a right to say what I like about religion and I'm afraid I will come in to conflict with anyone that tells me I can't or should not express an opinion about something I find unbelievable. The comments about how they wouldn't dare do that with the Koran speak volumes.(no pun intended) why should we live in fear of offending religion in a free society-what are they going to do and if they are prepared to kill in the name of their religion why on earth should anyone respect them if they want us to live in fear of them?

Come to that, try going to America, and defacing a flag, or something. Youd soon find out who's got the right of it.

What might is right is it? The thing is it's a symbol. some would take it as a deliberate insult. I've got no reason to deliberately provoke Americans though their insistence on it being treated with respect I find ridiculous. Plenty people burn British flags in protest-we take the eminently sensible view that who cares what a bunch of foreigners think. We've progressed beyond that knee jerk blind patriotism my country right or wrong mentality it's sad some Americans have not.

I've had the **** taken out of my nationality on numerous occasions and deliberate provocation on many others. It's not the intended insult that matter buts how you choose to view or deal with it. Somebody insulting me or my beliefs or calling me an idiot affects me not at all nor does it detract from my sense of self worth. It's a pity so many religious people have such little faith they get worked up at the least perceived insult.

Whether it's art though, that's a moot point. but if one of the the purposes of art is to be provocative then it seems to have succeeded.

Is telling a religious joke deliberate provocation? Dave Allen got excommunicated for jokes about the pope but the pope never felt the need to excommunicate any catholic terrorists. Islamic terrorist seem to believe they will go to paradise. Protestant terrorists no doubt went to church in sunday to thank god they weren't catholic.