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Thread: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

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    Re: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

    If there were any further evidence required to proof that evolution exists, one only needs to observe chimpanzees in the wild. Not their commonly help fluffy, cuddly, tea party image, but in the way that they will team up & fashion clubs as weapons then go on assaults on neighbouring groups in territorial wars, killing them where possible. At this stage the motive are simply territorial. It's not far along the evolutionary ladder when Religions get invented & they become the new motivation for war.

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    Re: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    If there were any further evidence required to proof that evolution exists, one only needs to observe chimpanzees in the wild. Not their commonly help fluffy, cuddly, tea party image, but in the way that they will team up & fashion clubs as weapons then go on assaults on neighbouring groups in territorial wars, killing them where possible. At this stage the motive are simply territorial. It's not far along the evolutionary ladder when Religions get invented & they become the new motivation for war.
    In my view, a simple butterfly is more evidence of evolution than a chimp.

    That being said, a time has come that we can ill afford to keep being " General" in our knowledge of and dealings with religion; these are not common times, and common thinking allows religion to flourish. These are extra ordinary times, that require extra ordinary thinking. Religion is mans effort to reach God, it is not God trying to reach man.

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    Re: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

    We cannot become victims of our past , but we certainly can learn from that history. Can we defy tradition? Because the bulk of religion is simply tradition; the traditions and cultures of humans. A lot happened when Constantine beefed up religion in the 4th century , and the things he planted are still living and breathing in the human consciousness. That historic stuff, entered into the bloodstream of Christianity and has been there ever since; growing in influence, masking itself in incredible fusion.\\The evolution of religion started effecting everything, even architecture. The Byzantine phase of church architecture was incredible, as were Romanesque and Gothic.

    And if one wanted to, to dig deeper into knowledge, into history, just stop accepting the general understanding, you could look at all that architecture and trace it to many pagan origins. And if you look deeper into this stuff, it would swell the cranium.

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    Re: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

    Regrettably, though, "Learning From The Mistakes Of The Past", rather than learning how to not let something happen again, tends to go towards be learning how best to turn situations to one's own advantage by increasing Power & Control over others. More often than not this is by way of moulding & creating Religions to become more & more violent & even more intolerant.

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    Re: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    Regrettably, though, "Learning From The Mistakes Of The Past", rather than learning how to not let something happen again, tends to go towards be learning how best to turn situations to one's own advantage by increasing Power & Control over others. More often than not this is by way of moulding & creating Religions to become more & more violent & even more intolerant.


    I agree, it is unfortunate that how we rewind religion, does not seem to erase the error and add on correction, and then play that on into the future. Religion is not an evil thing or concept within itself, people have made it what it is, no different than Atheism, or Islam ; all ways of life are impacted and infracted by us. Knowledge is increasing, but how humans absorb spiritual knowledge, is a whole different concept cradled in confusion.

    The discussion on religion needs to be changed totally. We can't change religion, its far too late for that, we can't wipe them out and we can't remove its lure from the heart of mankind. So what can we do with it?

    Now that's a question which is up for grabs , but who has the courage and foresight to grab it without the weight of the past?

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    Re: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

    Ever since the tower of Babel was erected to " reach the Heavens', civilizations have followed suit by building structures with pointed tops. Which reflect beliefs. The Babylonians and Egyptians built obelisks and pyramids that reflected their beliefs that they were progressing towards immortality. Then the Greeks came along with their philosophy and culture and the direction of architecture changed from upward and vertical to downward and horizontal. So we can see religious influences on material things in history, and trace that to particulars. The longer the building last, the longer the hidden influence will last. But if an onlooker is not aware of the religious history in this, then to them, a building is just a building. Its just " General", nothing worth thinking about, or no history involved. From Normandy to Britain, a trained eye can literally " See through buildings, the influencing history involved."

    You can't remove religion out of a place, where even " The Buildings are " Spiritual".

    Even the " Pulpit" in most churches came from Greco-Roman antiquity. The word pulpit is derived from the Latin word " Pulpitum", which means a stage. Back then they wanted " Excessive attention " to the preacher or orator, whether they were sitting or standing, which is also the origin of " The Bishop's Chair." Even the simple presence of " Candles" was borrowed from the ceremonial court of the Roman Empire. ( from Frank Viola's, " Pagan Christianity pg. 36-38.) Viola states that one could " Exegete the architecture."

    Now why bring all this building stuff up? Well to show just one way to get beyond a general look at things in religion and its history. And add to your understanding just what we are up against.

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    Re: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    I agree, it is unfortunate that how we rewind religion, does not seem to erase the error and add on correction, and then play that on into the future. Religion is not an evil thing or concept within itself, people have made it what it is, no different than Atheism, or Islam ; all ways of life are impacted and infracted by us. Knowledge is increasing, but how humans absorb spiritual knowledge, is a whole different concept cradled in confusion.

    The discussion on religion needs to be changed totally. We can't change religion, its far too late for that, we can't wipe them out and we can't remove its lure from the heart of mankind. So what can we do with it?

    Now that's a question which is up for grabs , but who has the courage and foresight to grab it without the weight of the past?
    What we can do is teach people to question what they are taught to believe trouble is we allow religious schools to exist and let religion cloister kids so they can teach them that they are different from everybody else and everybody else has an erroneous perverted view of what god is and so in the name of tolerance we allow the preaching of intolerance. Look at what is happening now we have religious sects of all types demanding that their beliefs be respected which to them means no one should be allowed to criticise, question or make fun of them in any way. Most non believers can run rings round the religious when it comes to discussing religion for the simple reason that they have actually read and given thought to the subject. Look at this thread and see all the comments about how people don't "get" the true meaning of Christianity or have the wrong idea of god.

    If an Atheist can remove all thoughts of there being any gods or a God, then a Theist can remove all false conceptions of God,
    It would be laughable if it wasn't something that led to so much misery in the world.

    Anyone with a scintilla of knowledge could tell you that religious rituals are simply updated versions of pagan ritual (Catholicism most of all) that easter and Christmas are old pagan times of celebration hijacked by christians yet every year we hear bleating about how the true meaning of chrismas is being lost.

    Religion be it Christian or Muslim is carefully crafted to control people an make them conform and not question their place in society. Liberty is pagan concept thankfully ingrained in our psyche.

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    Re: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    What we can do is teach people to question what they are taught to believe trouble is we allow religious schools to exist and let religion cloister kids so they can teach them that they are different from everybody else and everybody else has an erroneous perverted view of what god is and so in the name of tolerance we allow the preaching of intolerance. Look at what is happening now we have religious sects of all types demanding that their beliefs be respected which to them means no one should be allowed to criticise, question or make fun of them in any way. Most non believers can run rings round the religious when it comes to discussing religion for the simple reason that they have actually read and given thought to the subject. Look at this thread and see all the comments about how people don't "get" the true meaning of Christianity or have the wrong idea of god.



    It would be laughable if it wasn't something that led to so much misery in the world.

    Anyone with a scintilla of knowledge could tell you that religious rituals are simply updated versions of pagan ritual (Catholicism most of all) that easter and Christmas are old pagan times of celebration hijacked by christians yet every year we hear bleating about how the true meaning of chrismas is being lost.

    Religion be it Christian or Muslim is carefully crafted to control people an make them conform and not question their place in society. Liberty is pagan concept thankfully ingrained in our psyche.


    I agree; tradition , like paganism, cannot be removed from groups, cities or nations, because its dug its roots in for centuries, only from individuals; even when things are spoken to a group, its still received by the individuals who accept it. When enough individuals are awakened, then they can inject into society what was injected into them.

    That's one way to bring about change; but there is another.

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    Re: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

    Religion is no longer a " Surface problem", its a deeply ingrained problem, and it cannot be dealt with by using surface thinking; we need deep thinking. Religion does not even know its a problem. Some religions, in the ancient times, may have been religion in its purest form, before they were tainted and corrupted. And as some here know, when we dig deeper, we find paganism. Not that paganism is wrong, but true organic religion is not mixed traditional institutionalized elements of paganism or other religions, it stands on its own merit. When foreign elements attach themselves, those elements need to be exposed and examined.

    So what happened to religion? Not a general look, but a deep look.

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    Re: When religious discussion is no longer " General."

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    People are leaving religions, they are tired of the institutions, denominations and routines that disconnect you from reason. Worn out by the endless programs and doctrines of insanity. But where are they going? To other new fangled religions? Or are they convinced there is no God, because they don't like religion?

    As we grapple with such issues, how did religion even get in this mess in the first place?

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