How long must the world wait ?

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by ArnoldLayne

Accountable...with respect thats my whole point ...WE CANT !

Respectfully disagree. we can. You're talking about man's inhumanity to man. Not once did you talk about earthquakes, tsunamis, or other things we really can't control (at least not yet).

A wonderful book, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People (Stephen Covey) points out that we have things we are concerned about and things we can influence. If one concentrates one's energies on the things one can influence, one will fine that the Circle of Influence (his term) will expand and grow. My circle is infinitescimally small, George Bush's is very large. Gandi's started very small, yet look at what he accomplished.

Yes thats an interesting point but many of those within the circle of influence (and have the most influence) are perhaps those whom some of us would prefer not to be.Ghandi for example had far less than say Bush or Blair

Ghandi had less influence because he had less power

It is power that rules the world unfortunately , not influence.

My original statement was borne from the frustration and disgust at the worlds continued apathy at poverty, genocide, greed, murder etc. We may be influenced by Ghandi and Luther King and it may give us a glimmer of hope at times but only the likes of Bush , Blair, Bin Laden or whoever , really have the power to change things in this world.

And the worst thing about is ....We allow them to

To get back to my original point .Im just saying that a caring God has a responsibility does he not . Otherwise he is not a caring God.

I'm asking him now...If he exists, come and sort this bloody mess out now once and for all

[Clint]

Maybe if we saw death through God’s eyes it wouldn’t be what we considered the ultimate evil.
Maybe if we saw death through God’s eyes, we wouldn’t fear it.
If there wasn’t such a thing as darkness, we wouldn’t know there is light.
If there wasn’t such a thing as evil, we wouldn’t know there is good.
If people didn’t experience tragedy, what opportunity would there be for mercy.
If we had ultimate knowledge, wisdom, power and all the other attributes of God we could enter into a debate with Him about how he does things.
He wants us to have faith in Him (God is love) and grow in that faith.
Without trials and temptations faith wouldn't have anyplace to grow.

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by ArnoldLayne

To get back to my original point .Im just saying that a caring God has a responsibility does he not . Otherwise he is not a caring God.

I'm asking him now...If he exists, come and sort this bloody mess out now once and for all

I don't think we've gotten off the point, but I'll be glad to lurk for awhile to see where I'm wrong.

Wait for what?

The rapture? Delieverance?

It's already available.

I often wonder why God is held responsible for the starving nations such as India when the have enough cows there to feed everyone a hundred times over, yet because of thier religious choice to not eat meet, they starve.

Originally Posted by Far Rider

Wait for what?

The rapture? Delieverance?

It's already available.

I often wonder why God is held responsible for the starving nations such as India when the have enough cows there to feed everyone a hundred times over, yet because of thier religious choice to not eat meet, they starve.

If we are Gods creation then He is ultimately responsible. I am just asking, how much more suffering is there to be before the second coming. More to the point ....He aint coming ! cos He aint there, otherwise he would have started again from scratch.

India isnt starving by the way, its Africa and they are not starving because they dont eat beef, they are starving for many reasons...drought, flood, war, displacement. Not because of religious choice

[Clint]

Not to create a discussion on the subject but in my understanding the “rapture” isn’t an escape. God has always put his people through tribulation. Just like he did with Job, he does it with us. He does it because we are like metal that doesn’t bend or give up its impurities unless heat and pressure is applied. If the “rapture” (word not found in the Bible) was to be an escape, it would have occurred many times already. Many times through history, mankind has experienced much worse tribulation than we face today or see coming in the near future.

Those who are believers and have come to God are as a group, a mess. The “church” is so full of garbage it is going to be pretty ugly when God really begins the purification process. I don’t think we should be expecting that he will rescue us until we have finished the prescribed course.

As I understand it, God will not allow his faithful to experience His “wrath” (word found in the Bible). Only once in history has mankind experienced God’s wrath.

I actually know of people who say that if they aren't "raptured" at some given point...then God doesn't exist. That is the huge danger in the "pre-trib rapture" teaching that is out there today.

Originally Posted by ArnoldLayne

If we are Gods creation then He is ultimately responsible. I am just asking, how much more suffering is there to be before the second coming. More to the point ....He aint coming ! cos He aint there, otherwise he would have started again from scratch.

India isnt starving by the way, its Africa and they are not starving because they dont eat beef, they are starving for many reasons...drought, flood, war, displacement. Not because of religious choice

Why didnt you just say that in the first place...

It's so much easier to say you don't believe God. A whole lot less of us would have bothered answering your question.

I disagree that God as my creator is ultimately responsible for my actions, Im not a programmed robot, I exercise my free will, making me responsible for my actions, motives and thoughts.

I don't belive the opposite take either..."the devil made me do it". I am responsible for me.

[Accountable]

Originally Posted by ArnoldLayne

If we are Gods creation then He is ultimately responsible. I am just asking, how much more suffering is there to be before the second coming. More to the point ....He aint coming ! cos He aint there, otherwise he would have started again from scratch.

India isnt starving by the way, its Africa and they are not starving because they dont eat beef, they are starving for many reasons...drought, flood, war, displacement. Not because of religious choice

Oh PLEASE! paraphrase: "If you don't give me what I want then you don't love me."

Stop your winjing and do what you can. Don't make a list of what you can't do because that's a waste of time. Don't make a list of what others should be doing because that's likewise a waste of time. If there are those you see as not doing their responsibility, do whatever you feel you should to influence them. For cryin' out loud, if the mess bothers you, start cleaning it up.

Arnold, please don't take this as a personal attack. I was getting cramps holding that in. I don't know you from Adam. I scanned your previous posts but could not get a feel for where you are coming from; this is the first time I've found of your views in this area. It just frustrates me to no end that someone would care enough about a thing to complain so vehemently, yet reject any suggestion that something can be done. You may as well complain about the mountain blocking your view.